Why do you think this is ignorant?
I don't think it can get more ignorant than high-jacking planes and crashing them into buildings full of people because a religious book written nearly a 1000 years ago says it's ok to do so.
I don't think it can get more ignorant than high-jacking planes and crashing them into buildings full of people because a religious book written nearly a 1000 years ago says it's ok to do so.
That was an old comment.
Anyways, I agree with that, but what you wrote could have been rephrased. You target Islam, but your phrase demonizes all religions; its very vague and unspecific. Not all religions are as horrid as people make it sound, and not everyone who is religious take it to extreme and literal levels. I don't let religion run my life, nor do I NEED IT, and I am Christian. Not all religion isn't necessarily bad, its the individual who makes it that way.
Anyways, I agree with that, but what you wrote could have been rephrased. You target Islam, but your phrase demonizes all religions; its very vague and unspecific. Not all religions are as horrid as people make it sound, and not everyone who is religious take it to extreme and literal levels. I don't let religion run my life, nor do I NEED IT, and I am Christian. Not all religion isn't necessarily bad, its the individual who makes it that way.
Yeh, sorry about the late reply, I've been busy.
The poster was meant to be unspecific to include most religions, to draw comparisons with drugs, which are supposed to be 'bad' for people yet have been outlawed while religions (With some pretty bad religious text)are allowd to flourish, indoctrinate and even get charity and tax exempt status.
In my opinion all religions are horrid. They were created to establish control at every level of Human life. For control of the mind, control of the person, control of the community and the control of money and power. This can, and does, leave many people lacking in knowledge and healthy mental growth that should enable them to look at things subjectively. Instead many do not and then force others to share their moral and religious belifes via lobbying or voting for a religious-centric Government who carries their demands and fears and creates political policy around them.
Examples of this would be the ban on stem-cell research, same sex marriage, banning of certain music and words from TV (Especially where it concerns religion) banning of certain books, stifling of ligitimate debate on a certain religion, laws prohibiting the questioning and ridicule of religion and its adherents and even contraceptives.
Religion (And it's moral and legal laws) seldom stays in the Private domain where it should belong, it's forced in to public life and into Communities, schools, Government and law and applied to people who don't follow or believe in it. The people doing this and perpetuating it are not the extremests, these are supposed 'good' moderates, not just Christians but Muslims, Jews, Hindus and others.
So it's not just the true believers, because that's what you are when you follow everything to the last letter, but also the moderates who force their beliefs and morals on others and are active in trying to change change the community/country in some way. You don't have to fly a plane into a building to an aggresive theist.
Also, if you actually read the Bibles, Qur'an and Torah carefully, you will see what type of hate and rubbish lies within them. And yes, not everyone follows the bad parts (They're still a part of it and doesn't that say something about the religion?), but still, idiots follow it and as outlined above others (Moderates) are still active in spreading their beliefs and morals or others when they're not wanted.
So that's why I dislike religion, its mentally, socially, culturally and scientificlly restricting, and it's all enforced and put into action by moderate and hardcore believers. Whether you're going to Chruch on a sunday, lobbying government or flying planes into buildings, religion is enforced through social actions (Church) which makes religion part of every day life and seem legitimate and normal, via the state (Through lobbying the gov) and via threats and bullying by the hardcores. It's not just an individual thing.
The poster was meant to be unspecific to include most religions, to draw comparisons with drugs, which are supposed to be 'bad' for people yet have been outlawed while religions (With some pretty bad religious text)are allowd to flourish, indoctrinate and even get charity and tax exempt status.
In my opinion all religions are horrid. They were created to establish control at every level of Human life. For control of the mind, control of the person, control of the community and the control of money and power. This can, and does, leave many people lacking in knowledge and healthy mental growth that should enable them to look at things subjectively. Instead many do not and then force others to share their moral and religious belifes via lobbying or voting for a religious-centric Government who carries their demands and fears and creates political policy around them.
Examples of this would be the ban on stem-cell research, same sex marriage, banning of certain music and words from TV (Especially where it concerns religion) banning of certain books, stifling of ligitimate debate on a certain religion, laws prohibiting the questioning and ridicule of religion and its adherents and even contraceptives.
Religion (And it's moral and legal laws) seldom stays in the Private domain where it should belong, it's forced in to public life and into Communities, schools, Government and law and applied to people who don't follow or believe in it. The people doing this and perpetuating it are not the extremests, these are supposed 'good' moderates, not just Christians but Muslims, Jews, Hindus and others.
So it's not just the true believers, because that's what you are when you follow everything to the last letter, but also the moderates who force their beliefs and morals on others and are active in trying to change change the community/country in some way. You don't have to fly a plane into a building to an aggresive theist.
Also, if you actually read the Bibles, Qur'an and Torah carefully, you will see what type of hate and rubbish lies within them. And yes, not everyone follows the bad parts (They're still a part of it and doesn't that say something about the religion?), but still, idiots follow it and as outlined above others (Moderates) are still active in spreading their beliefs and morals or others when they're not wanted.
So that's why I dislike religion, its mentally, socially, culturally and scientificlly restricting, and it's all enforced and put into action by moderate and hardcore believers. Whether you're going to Chruch on a sunday, lobbying government or flying planes into buildings, religion is enforced through social actions (Church) which makes religion part of every day life and seem legitimate and normal, via the state (Through lobbying the gov) and via threats and bullying by the hardcores. It's not just an individual thing.
Well, I think you are over thinking it, for not EVERYONE who believes is like that. I agree that many of the things you claim is 'bad', like censorship and the stem cell research, that religion enforces, but not all believers follow that strictly. It's the church that needs to be changed radically. The separation of the church and the government. There are plenty of Christian politicians, which makes sense as to why certain laws are enforced that follow religion. America is fairly new compared to other governments and countries, originally founded by radical Christians, so this will linger for a while.
Everything in the world has hypocrites and liars and 'bad' sides. But not every person in a certain group is 'bad' and follows that. Just simply believing is enough, and people who take it too far are to blame, the ones that force it down other peoples' throats.
Drugs that are abused by people who overdose will have deadly consequences, similarly, people who abuse religion and take it too far will also have negative outcomes. If drugs weren't abused, and if religion wasn't shoved in peoples' lives, this world would be a much happier place. Drugs are not BAD, religion is not BAD, it all lies in the individual or a group of people ( the church, government, etc)
Also, I think religion is taken way too literally. Obviously, evolution exists, and if people would read the Bible like a literary work, and understand the symbolism, you can infer that the 7 days of creation may have actually been time periods. The thing about the Bible and these books and religions is that it is supposed to be open to interpretation, some people get it and leave it as that; whereas others take it literally and extremely and enforce 'bad' behaviors. My thing is, if people would simply believe and live their life to themselves and not try to influence others, this dilemma would be solved. Same with drugs. Keep it to yourself and dont influence people if they want to be drug free.
Everything in the world has hypocrites and liars and 'bad' sides. But not every person in a certain group is 'bad' and follows that. Just simply believing is enough, and people who take it too far are to blame, the ones that force it down other peoples' throats.
Drugs that are abused by people who overdose will have deadly consequences, similarly, people who abuse religion and take it too far will also have negative outcomes. If drugs weren't abused, and if religion wasn't shoved in peoples' lives, this world would be a much happier place. Drugs are not BAD, religion is not BAD, it all lies in the individual or a group of people ( the church, government, etc)
Also, I think religion is taken way too literally. Obviously, evolution exists, and if people would read the Bible like a literary work, and understand the symbolism, you can infer that the 7 days of creation may have actually been time periods. The thing about the Bible and these books and religions is that it is supposed to be open to interpretation, some people get it and leave it as that; whereas others take it literally and extremely and enforce 'bad' behaviors. My thing is, if people would simply believe and live their life to themselves and not try to influence others, this dilemma would be solved. Same with drugs. Keep it to yourself and dont influence people if they want to be drug free.
I agree that not everyone who is a believer is like that, I've stated this a few times through-out this comment section, though they do force their beliefs on others differently on a indirect and direct level.
The reality is that moderates, through the everday activities they do, contribute to the re-enforcment of religion on the rest of society. Some of these people may not be shoving religion down peoples' throats, but they legitimizes the actions for those that do. Those that do are religious leaders who say they represent the X amount of Christians, Muslims, Jews etc in a given community or country. These leaders are directly and indirectly backed by moderates as well as others.
I've known and have seen these moderates who do it. The fact a secular Government in the UK would give in to these moderate groups is a prime example. In the UK we have 'Faith Schools' that are private and part paid for by the Gov which teach absoloute religious rubbish in schools, and its backed and funded by the State. And as long as these schools teach the basics what the states asks them to, they don't care what else they teach them, even if it's rubbish. Why? Because these religious moderates are content to be represented by these religious leaders and also support the concepts they campaign either indirectly as I say above or directly. These people are not a minority.
The UK is a Christian nation by act of Parliament, however our Politicians, Governments and Parties are overwhelmingly secular. Even wih that we still have religious people in all sections as well as the lobbying and community groups. The U.S. has a separation of Chruch and state, yet their politics are more based around religion than the UK's. That happens because the U.S. political system is being strangled by a combination of religion, patriotism and corruption, and religion plays a huge part in enforcing, perpetuating and allowing that to happen by indoctrinating young Americans from birth.
I have to contest you statment that it's just those who misinterprit the texts or 'take it to far' that are the problem. It is not, it is the religious ideology itself too, it is quite literal and isn't always a matter of interpretation. It's dangerous and will always give rise to, not just idiots, but people who will become so religious they can't see straight anymore and will support almost anything that comes out of the mouth of a religious leader or Politician their religious leaders have told them to support.
"If drugs weren't abused, and if religion wasn't shoved in peoples' lives, this world would be a much happier place."
That's debatable, but I understand where you're coming from. However, people choose to take drugs, the vast majority of religious people have religion forced upon them from birth via the parents at home, community, religious centre or school (This is by both Mods and Strict adherents). Drugs are not forced on people in the same way that religious ideology is (In fact drugs are campaigned against). These people may have good intentions when indoctrinating their chldren with what they think is 'good', but when they 'teach' they also expose them to the bad side of religion with the threats of eternal damnation as well as hatefull stuff they'll read when they pick up the religious book for themselves.
Which brings me back to the point I made in my other post, religion is mentally, socially, culturally and scientificlly restricting. It doesn't matter if you're a mod or strict follower, it damages the individual and society, no matter the intentions of the person. As I've pointed out, even the ones who keep their religion private will still force it upon their own children because they think its the 'right' thing for them (Though I can't actively stop them from doing that and wouldn't, I still disagree with it).
Even if we tried to take the bad parts out of the religious text (As I've mentioned to some), do you know how many mods as well as strict adherents would compalin that it's wrong to do so? It's just another example of mods enforcing and legitimizing the bad parts and the people who advocate them.
As I've said, it isn't just about that individual who keeps it to theirself, because they don't, they pass it on to the next generation, and we don't necessarly know what they're going to do with it or how they'll pass it on. It's about the perpetuation of religious ideology by the religious whether it's indirectly or directly, that wil result in mentally, socially, culturally and scientificlly restricting society, which in a sense, is holding society back.
Which is something that can't be said for drugs, as drugs are not holding society back on the same level as religious ideology is.
The reality is that moderates, through the everday activities they do, contribute to the re-enforcment of religion on the rest of society. Some of these people may not be shoving religion down peoples' throats, but they legitimizes the actions for those that do. Those that do are religious leaders who say they represent the X amount of Christians, Muslims, Jews etc in a given community or country. These leaders are directly and indirectly backed by moderates as well as others.
I've known and have seen these moderates who do it. The fact a secular Government in the UK would give in to these moderate groups is a prime example. In the UK we have 'Faith Schools' that are private and part paid for by the Gov which teach absoloute religious rubbish in schools, and its backed and funded by the State. And as long as these schools teach the basics what the states asks them to, they don't care what else they teach them, even if it's rubbish. Why? Because these religious moderates are content to be represented by these religious leaders and also support the concepts they campaign either indirectly as I say above or directly. These people are not a minority.
The UK is a Christian nation by act of Parliament, however our Politicians, Governments and Parties are overwhelmingly secular. Even wih that we still have religious people in all sections as well as the lobbying and community groups. The U.S. has a separation of Chruch and state, yet their politics are more based around religion than the UK's. That happens because the U.S. political system is being strangled by a combination of religion, patriotism and corruption, and religion plays a huge part in enforcing, perpetuating and allowing that to happen by indoctrinating young Americans from birth.
I have to contest you statment that it's just those who misinterprit the texts or 'take it to far' that are the problem. It is not, it is the religious ideology itself too, it is quite literal and isn't always a matter of interpretation. It's dangerous and will always give rise to, not just idiots, but people who will become so religious they can't see straight anymore and will support almost anything that comes out of the mouth of a religious leader or Politician their religious leaders have told them to support.
"If drugs weren't abused, and if religion wasn't shoved in peoples' lives, this world would be a much happier place."
That's debatable, but I understand where you're coming from. However, people choose to take drugs, the vast majority of religious people have religion forced upon them from birth via the parents at home, community, religious centre or school (This is by both Mods and Strict adherents). Drugs are not forced on people in the same way that religious ideology is (In fact drugs are campaigned against). These people may have good intentions when indoctrinating their chldren with what they think is 'good', but when they 'teach' they also expose them to the bad side of religion with the threats of eternal damnation as well as hatefull stuff they'll read when they pick up the religious book for themselves.
Which brings me back to the point I made in my other post, religion is mentally, socially, culturally and scientificlly restricting. It doesn't matter if you're a mod or strict follower, it damages the individual and society, no matter the intentions of the person. As I've pointed out, even the ones who keep their religion private will still force it upon their own children because they think its the 'right' thing for them (Though I can't actively stop them from doing that and wouldn't, I still disagree with it).
Even if we tried to take the bad parts out of the religious text (As I've mentioned to some), do you know how many mods as well as strict adherents would compalin that it's wrong to do so? It's just another example of mods enforcing and legitimizing the bad parts and the people who advocate them.
As I've said, it isn't just about that individual who keeps it to theirself, because they don't, they pass it on to the next generation, and we don't necessarly know what they're going to do with it or how they'll pass it on. It's about the perpetuation of religious ideology by the religious whether it's indirectly or directly, that wil result in mentally, socially, culturally and scientificlly restricting society, which in a sense, is holding society back.
Which is something that can't be said for drugs, as drugs are not holding society back on the same level as religious ideology is.
Well, I think that you over think many things, even if it makes sense and is understandable. I highly doubt average people think that deeply about this.
I don't believe it damages anyone unless its enforced, more that its restricting things in society. And some of these restrictions, I think, are not that horrid and may benefit people more than they realize.
I think it's ironic how you say that religion is contributing to the corruption of the United States, when I think a more serious issue is the idea of a socialist government may form. The US is picking up on socialist ideals very slowly. Socialism, and especially communism, suppresses peoples' individuality and freedoms, and is more so corrupt than religion, in my opinion. I dont really want to get off topic, but there are plenty of other corrupt ideals and situations that are worse. A country not only suppressing freedoms that religion doesnt support, but also the freedom to practice religion, freedom of speech, and other rights is truly more corrupt.
It's people. Like you said, they're idiots. You stated something like that an idiot who takes religion too far will listen to a religious leader no matter what they say, but that goes for so many other people that aren't even religious. People listen to their favorite celebrities who jump on the bandwagon of some campaign or movement, without even researching what the issue is even about. Like Kony 2012. People gave in to propaganda.
Religion may be forced on children, but its a lifestyle in that family perhaps, and parents also force children into other ideas besides that. Parents who simply do not care about their child and let them run around, doing whatever they like are more likely to fall under the influence of drugs and other dirty/bad/etc behaviors. Parents who force their kids to be energy saving nature lovers will carry out that lifestyle most likely in the future and support rising gas prices so people may be forced to convert to hybrid cars. Kind of off topic, but I do watch the show Wife Swap from time to time, and it just goes to show there are so much more things forced upon kids more than religion. Religion isnt the only thing forced upon kids, kids look up to their parents as an influence or are forced lifestyles no matter what.
Religion won't go away, it's been practiced thousands of years. Of course it will influence how society shapes and forms, and its not /completely/ bad nor good. Its a part of life, and there are other contributing factors that shape society as well. Socialist/communist ideals, propaganda, celebrities, drugs, almost everything does and there will be bad sides and good sides.
I'd much rather live in a "corrupt" government with religion influencing it in some ways or another than a strict corrupt communist type of government COMPLETELY suppressing freedoms. People dont know how good they've got it in certain areas, in my opinion.
I don't believe it damages anyone unless its enforced, more that its restricting things in society. And some of these restrictions, I think, are not that horrid and may benefit people more than they realize.
I think it's ironic how you say that religion is contributing to the corruption of the United States, when I think a more serious issue is the idea of a socialist government may form. The US is picking up on socialist ideals very slowly. Socialism, and especially communism, suppresses peoples' individuality and freedoms, and is more so corrupt than religion, in my opinion. I dont really want to get off topic, but there are plenty of other corrupt ideals and situations that are worse. A country not only suppressing freedoms that religion doesnt support, but also the freedom to practice religion, freedom of speech, and other rights is truly more corrupt.
It's people. Like you said, they're idiots. You stated something like that an idiot who takes religion too far will listen to a religious leader no matter what they say, but that goes for so many other people that aren't even religious. People listen to their favorite celebrities who jump on the bandwagon of some campaign or movement, without even researching what the issue is even about. Like Kony 2012. People gave in to propaganda.
Religion may be forced on children, but its a lifestyle in that family perhaps, and parents also force children into other ideas besides that. Parents who simply do not care about their child and let them run around, doing whatever they like are more likely to fall under the influence of drugs and other dirty/bad/etc behaviors. Parents who force their kids to be energy saving nature lovers will carry out that lifestyle most likely in the future and support rising gas prices so people may be forced to convert to hybrid cars. Kind of off topic, but I do watch the show Wife Swap from time to time, and it just goes to show there are so much more things forced upon kids more than religion. Religion isnt the only thing forced upon kids, kids look up to their parents as an influence or are forced lifestyles no matter what.
Religion won't go away, it's been practiced thousands of years. Of course it will influence how society shapes and forms, and its not /completely/ bad nor good. Its a part of life, and there are other contributing factors that shape society as well. Socialist/communist ideals, propaganda, celebrities, drugs, almost everything does and there will be bad sides and good sides.
I'd much rather live in a "corrupt" government with religion influencing it in some ways or another than a strict corrupt communist type of government COMPLETELY suppressing freedoms. People dont know how good they've got it in certain areas, in my opinion.
"Well, I think that you over think many things, even if it makes sense and is understandable. I highly doubt average people think that deeply about this."
That is huge part of the problem, people don't think enough about religious or political ideology. I don't think I'm overthinking it at all, this should be a standard observation and process for anyone who looks at any ideology, especially religion. It's a serious subject that requires serious thinking, not just for non-believers but for believers themseves before they decide to take up that ideology as a belief system and then use it to Govern their lives, social and moral conduct.
"I don't believe it damages anyone unless its enforced, more that its restricting things in society. And some of these restrictions, I think, are not that horrid and may benefit people more than they realize."
Well as I explained religion is enforced on a large scale, and as you yourself agreed, it is forced on children by parents as a lifestyle choice. Ultimately, it's still being forced, why not let them decide for themselves when they reach 18? All parents have to do is teach them what is right and wrong and some other basics in our western society, and they can do that without using the influence of religion or political ideology.
You also say it restricts things in society then go on to say that parts of religion in law may benefit some people? Isn't it my choice to decide for myself if something will benefit me or not instead of someone or some group deciding for me? You say "...communism, suppresses peoples' individuality and freedoms...", that's esentially what these religious groups are doing, and people don't ask them to do it.
However, I agree with you that religious ideology isn't the only ideology on the block influencing people. People are influenced by a variety of ideologies. I did make a deviation for this, have a look here: [link]
The difference between religious and political ideology is that religious ideology becomes so personal and engrained within an indvidual it can very rarely be undone. By nature religion is not meant to be questioned or changed, its teachings are supposed to remain static and unflexable because it's the word of 'God'.
On the other hand political ideology is constantly changing within society as people change. The political ideology will succeed or fail based on how it's implamented and by who. When people have a bad experience with a political ideology, whether it's Libertarian Capitalism or Satlinist Communism etc, the individual has learned that ideology has failings and so become warey of it. Which results in the ideology having to be changed and reinvent itself to a degree to attract followers again if its to be used to Govern the state and order social life (All political ideologies do this, no matter which ones).
Religion doesn't reinvent itself like that, it remains static and unflexable, it's followers just carry on following it regardless of what happens to them because of it or the world around them. They see it as some act of god to teach them a lesson or some act of the devil, and they actively carry on trying to implament an ideology that doesn't do any good for society.
Furthermore, most political ideologies don't hold society back, very rarely has a political ideology stagnated or regressed a society. The only examples I can currently think of, though there may be more, is Cambodia and Pol Pot-style Communism, North Korea and to a lesser extent modern political ideologies with religious influence such as U.S. Conservatism and Christian Democrat parties in western Europe. Which again brings me back to religion holding society back.
Religion has been here for a long time and it is a outdated way of ordering and governing society that needs to be left in the past where it belongs. We've got the point we're at technologically and socially because of modifying European Liberalism and enlightenment of the last 300 years. With more education more people become aware they were living in ignorance and darkness, if it was left completely upto the religious groups we'd still be in the dark ages.
So, religion will cause problems for and regression of society as long as its taken seriously, even if it was followed just by moderates. Though this doesn't mean political ideology is perfect, because it isn't; it can limit freedoms and rights like religion, but unlike religion political ideology can and does change and reinvent itself, and therein lies the difference.
That is huge part of the problem, people don't think enough about religious or political ideology. I don't think I'm overthinking it at all, this should be a standard observation and process for anyone who looks at any ideology, especially religion. It's a serious subject that requires serious thinking, not just for non-believers but for believers themseves before they decide to take up that ideology as a belief system and then use it to Govern their lives, social and moral conduct.
"I don't believe it damages anyone unless its enforced, more that its restricting things in society. And some of these restrictions, I think, are not that horrid and may benefit people more than they realize."
Well as I explained religion is enforced on a large scale, and as you yourself agreed, it is forced on children by parents as a lifestyle choice. Ultimately, it's still being forced, why not let them decide for themselves when they reach 18? All parents have to do is teach them what is right and wrong and some other basics in our western society, and they can do that without using the influence of religion or political ideology.
You also say it restricts things in society then go on to say that parts of religion in law may benefit some people? Isn't it my choice to decide for myself if something will benefit me or not instead of someone or some group deciding for me? You say "...communism, suppresses peoples' individuality and freedoms...", that's esentially what these religious groups are doing, and people don't ask them to do it.
However, I agree with you that religious ideology isn't the only ideology on the block influencing people. People are influenced by a variety of ideologies. I did make a deviation for this, have a look here: [link]
The difference between religious and political ideology is that religious ideology becomes so personal and engrained within an indvidual it can very rarely be undone. By nature religion is not meant to be questioned or changed, its teachings are supposed to remain static and unflexable because it's the word of 'God'.
On the other hand political ideology is constantly changing within society as people change. The political ideology will succeed or fail based on how it's implamented and by who. When people have a bad experience with a political ideology, whether it's Libertarian Capitalism or Satlinist Communism etc, the individual has learned that ideology has failings and so become warey of it. Which results in the ideology having to be changed and reinvent itself to a degree to attract followers again if its to be used to Govern the state and order social life (All political ideologies do this, no matter which ones).
Religion doesn't reinvent itself like that, it remains static and unflexable, it's followers just carry on following it regardless of what happens to them because of it or the world around them. They see it as some act of god to teach them a lesson or some act of the devil, and they actively carry on trying to implament an ideology that doesn't do any good for society.
Furthermore, most political ideologies don't hold society back, very rarely has a political ideology stagnated or regressed a society. The only examples I can currently think of, though there may be more, is Cambodia and Pol Pot-style Communism, North Korea and to a lesser extent modern political ideologies with religious influence such as U.S. Conservatism and Christian Democrat parties in western Europe. Which again brings me back to religion holding society back.
Religion has been here for a long time and it is a outdated way of ordering and governing society that needs to be left in the past where it belongs. We've got the point we're at technologically and socially because of modifying European Liberalism and enlightenment of the last 300 years. With more education more people become aware they were living in ignorance and darkness, if it was left completely upto the religious groups we'd still be in the dark ages.
So, religion will cause problems for and regression of society as long as its taken seriously, even if it was followed just by moderates. Though this doesn't mean political ideology is perfect, because it isn't; it can limit freedoms and rights like religion, but unlike religion political ideology can and does change and reinvent itself, and therein lies the difference.
[sorry, delayed reply]
Hmm okay I understand that.
I'd love to continue but I think you've summed it up nicely, and I understand your points and they make sense. There's not much left for me to say, but thanks for having this little debate/discussion with me, I enjoyed hearing your perspective on this. I dont want to get in further, it'll just get really repetitive.
Hmm okay I understand that.
I'd love to continue but I think you've summed it up nicely, and I understand your points and they make sense. There's not much left for me to say, but thanks for having this little debate/discussion with me, I enjoyed hearing your perspective on this. I dont want to get in further, it'll just get really repetitive.
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