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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012
So...my Mom, Grandmother, Great-Grandmother, Aunts and Godmother raised me to be a sexist? Funny...I was always under the notion that I was told to protect, honor and remain loyal to those who are the creators of life and nurturers of our future generations. Nice to know all that training during my first several years of my life were all a waste.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Oh, and women who let a man protect her are just as bad as the men who do the disgusting ‘deed’, as she is insulting real women who defend themselves. She would be another weak little bitch.
Oh, and your mum, grandmother, etc are all weak little bitches for teaching you that, and all women are these feminine, baby-wanting weaklings (by saying all women are going to be taking care of the next generation. Men do the same).
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
A man protecting a woman for ANY reason is sexist. He is showibng, whether it is 'for love' or not, that he thinks she is weak and cannot defend herself, and therefore the big, tough, man has to do for her. I hate in real lfie and fiction. If one of my (mostly male) friends tried to 'protect' me from danger, I would tell the sexist bastard to: "FUCK OFF. Let me deal with my own problems!". If one of my few female friends jumped in front of me to protect me, that is perfectly fine. She is another woman showing strenth. I love it when a woman jumps in front of a man/kick the shit out of a mugger for trying to rob her boyfriend/friend, instead of standing there being scary or running away like a weak little bitch.
Finally, women are never taught to protect men, so the reverse show not happen.
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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 11, 2013  Student Writer
Ok, say a woman was walking along at night. A mugger steps outs from the shadows and holds her at knife points and demands she hand over her bag.. She does, but he decides that's not enough, and proceeds to rape her.

Another man walks across the other side of the street. Let's say this guy is pretty big, built like a tank, biceps the size of small children etc, ex military or whatever. Someone who can handle himself in a fight. By your logic, Sgt Badass should just walk on by, because to intervene is sexist. I mean, who cares if she dies right? as long as she wasn't made to feel weak by the opposite sex.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Well, if Sgt Badass would save a fellow man in that situation instead of, say, calling him a pussy or something, then no, it is not sexist. The woman is pretty weak to just hand over her purse anyway. While I won't go into details of the situation, my mother has had a british army rifle pointed at her head more than once, when the soldier on the other end demands she declare herself a protestant, but did she? No, because she is a strong woman. The millitary are cowards, so don't act like being ex-millitary makes you spechul and strong. If I were mugged or a potential rapist attacked me, I wouldn't just stand there and let them do whatever. Even if I died fighting for my life, I would die happy, knowing I did it on my own instead if crying for help from a man little a little bitch and being a damsel-in-distress.
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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Student Writer
Ex-military means you are trained in combat, can handle tough situations and use your skills to resolve a situation. So yeah, that does make you pretty damn special. And if the militsry are cowards, then great, you've just managed to slag off every soldier, sailor and airman/airwoman who has out their lie on the line so thst you can rant on about how 'cowardly' they are. And if you are that arrogant that you'd reject the help of a male when being attacked purely on the basis that to do so would be seen as weak, you're not a feminist. You're a fucking moron. The man coming to your help would do so because you're a HUMAN BEING in danger. 

Also, at no point did I ask for your mother's life story. 
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer

Killing someone at a distance, via bombs, sniper rifles, tanks and whatnot is cowardly. If you are going to kill someone, you damn well better look them in the eyes and aknowledge them as people, in the same situation as you.

 

As I said, if that man were to help another man fine. But if that were a solider or ex-solider, fuck him. I would rather die.

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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Student Writer
You're not a feminist. You're a dickhead. Seriously, there's clearly no arguing with you, you absolute fuckwit. If you'd rather die at the hands of a mugger than be helped by a male because that goes against your ideal, I seriously suggest you do some research on what feminism actually is. Or at the very least volunteer yourself for experimental brain surgery. Because you seem to be mistaking true feminism for female superiority, which is the opposite of what feminism tries to achieve. Get your facts straight, you little cunt. 
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer

Female suprimiacy? I'm one of the few Feminists who support the other fifty percent of the human population. It is not being 'sexist'. It is called having morals and self-respect. I know my facts. Judging from your other comment, you do not. And It's not just 'the Irish thing' (those fuckers killed CHILDREN, just like every other army), but every single thing that scum has done. No one is a 'hero' in war. There are no 'good guys' sand 'bad guys'. Some just have better morals than others and are blind fools following raicst, sexist, sectarian scum.

Goodbye, people who does not know me so cannot judge.

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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Student Writer
Farwell, you whiny little bitch

Also, Irish independence can be summarised as 'Let's govern ourselves!', then not liking it and blaming the British. Also, great tactics with your 'resistance force' "They killed a few civvies, so let's bomb their towns! That clearly makes us the better people!'

And if you did, you'd have no problem with a man helping you in a fight. Not all men see a female in trouble and intervene to be a 'white knight'. or because they feel the female is weak. They do it because a fellow human being is in trouble.

Stop calling yourself a feminist when you don't know the fucking meaning of the word, you arrogant cunt. 
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer

Translation: WAAAAAH! I don't know my history or what Feminism is so I'm just going to spout the shit the British goverment fed me!

Ta ta!

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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Student Writer
Well what's your definition of feminism? 
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I a[ologise in advance for the long paragraph. 

A person, male or female, who supports the rights, freedom of speech and rightful positive and negative opinions and treatment of men and women (that of course includes transsexuals). That means not shaming feminine or virgin men or masculine women (or men who enjoy feminine things and vice versa). It means, as petty as this sounds, not calling clothes ‘men’s clothing’ or ‘women’s clothing’, and not saying things like ‘male nurse’, ‘female doctor’, ‘female solider’, ‘male ballerina’ (and, even though I am anti-war, I still support this – women fighting on the front line and in close combat instead of deligated to sniper rifles, mission control and aircraft). Most importantly for me, it means not insulting a women who chooses to work instead of having children or while having children nor insulting a man for choosing to stay at home, or think he is a paedophile if he enjoys the company of children/wants to work with children. Second most importantly, it means not demonizing men’s sexuality (‘women’ claim so much as saying ‘nice legs’ is ‘objectification’ or a ‘mini-rape’, or wolf-whistling is disgusting). It means having women held accountable for their actions like men, and being judged the same as men would (such it is being their fault for making themselves vulnerable to rape, but not the direct cause not being denounced as ‘victim-blaming’ as no one would say a person waving money around is not partially responsible for being mugged). And on that note, not insisted there is such bullshit as ‘rape culture’ because if there was, a ‘culture’ would exist for all crimes. It means having women being perused for crimes (abuse, rape, murder, etc) as much as men. It means acknowledging and fighting male abuse and discrimination, as it happen even more to men than women nowadays. Third most importantly, not denouncing any criticism of women as ‘sexist’, ‘misogynistic’, ‘oppressive’ or ‘trying to control women’ (Slut-shaming for example; there is not ‘sexual double standard’ as sex is physically different for men and women and is a choice, so can be judged like everything else).
Finally, trying to get fiction (which can and has effected real life) to be as non-sexist as real life is.  There are many, many more reason, but lastly: trying to get fiction (Which can and has effected real life) to be as non-sexist as real life is.

GLBT also goes hand-in-hand with feminism and has been incorporated in it.

Is that bad? I'm guessing you think it is bad.

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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Student Writer
So, equal rights and treatment for all? I have NO issue with this.

My issue lies solely with you, and your adamant refusal to accept the help of a male. A man helping a woman does not mean he necessarily thinks you, as a female, are weak. It is literally a case of one fellow human being helping another. Gender doesn't even come into it. If anything, you are the one being sexist, though you claim not to be, by judging his actions as nothing other than misogyny. If you were truly feminist, you wouldn't even consider the gender of either parties. One person is attacking another, a third person intervenes. That is literally all there is to this scenario. 
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I know, but as I said, if it were man in that situation, how many men (or women) would step up to help him. How many would laugh, call him 'weak', a 'pussy' or 'not a real man'. That is my issue. Plus I am not some screaming, crying, wimpering damsel-in-distress who runs to a man for 'protection'. It is not 'sexist' to want to look after yourself or fight for yourself. It is much more noble to die fighting for your own life, or maybe even winning on your own, as a woman, instead of standing there terrified.
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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013  Student Writer
At no point did I imply you were a coward. My issue with you is that you would die rather than accept help from someone based on their gender. Now THAT is sexist.

And if you would really 'die fighting', as opposed to accepting help from a male purely because of his gender, then I can honestly say that is the single most ridiculous, non-feminist thing I have heard in a long time. 

I'm done with this conversation. I would suggest not responding to this message, because there is literally nothing you can say that will change my opinion of you and your sexist views.

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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Fine then, keep ignoring the point I am making in lieu of what I am actually expressing. IF you (if you are female) want to a man-dependent damsel-in-distress if the situation calls then do so. Again, if he would he;p another man or a woman would help a man in that situation, then ok. If he was trying to 'save' me instead of fighting alongside me, then ok.
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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013  Student Writer
I am not ignoring your point. I am saying your point is bullshit.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Yeah, right.
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:iconkyyshak:
Kyyshak Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'm just gonna butt in here and ask the pair of you a question. (although I think I know what each of you will say)

Imagine a very similar situation to previously described. A lone traveller is walking through the streets at night and it's raining. Whilst walking, a gang of thugs appear. This gang decide our lone traveller is easy pickings and move in for the kill. At the same time another traveller spots the gang, and realises what is about to happen. The newcomer is certain that the lone traveller would not be able to stand up to the thugs, but with the newcomer's help, they should manage it. Should our newcomer intervene?
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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Student Writer
Personally, I would. A fellow human being is in danger. Even if my intervention consists of simply phoning the police, I would assist where I could.

That's not the issue however. The issue is whether or not male intervention is sexist when the victim is a woman. Personally, I think that notion is absurd. 
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:iconkyyshak:
Kyyshak Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
We have one answer. Now we must wait for the other, before I explain why I asked the question.
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:iconstummervogel:
StummerVogel Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2013
It's been a month but I wanna know what you were going to say D:
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer

Could not give less of a fuck about those brainwashed cunts. I know things, my whole family has suffered, along with billions of other innocent peope, because of those murderous arseholes. I am not getting into this debate with another person who has fallen for the lies and selfishness.

 

 

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:iconknightofthelion:
KnightoftheLion Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Student Writer
Oh cry me a river. If this is an Irish thing, you guys fucked yourselves over, and continue to whine about it because apparently it was our fault.
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:iconjadeowl315:
JadeOwl315 Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well, it's an opinion really, meaning you don't have to agree with it. Good for you for being a strong, confident women. But some of us, who just happened to be raised differently, find chivalry to be the right thing to do.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Well, it's just old-fashioned, in a bad way. But we can't control how we are raised, I guess.
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:iconjadeowl315:
JadeOwl315 Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, it's no problem.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
:thumb263149147:

Of course, to a sexist person like you, that is not the case.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The thumb did not appear.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
Check the reply I made to it. Go through all the comments and try telling all those women how weak they are. Go ahead.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 15, 2012
Well I guess regardless of my training, it gives me an excuse to just turn away from all the traditional lessons that was instilled in me. By the way, the women in my life are indeed strong women so once again, way to make baseless, sexist generalizations. Just because women teach a male to protect women does not make them weak. Seriously though, if women are going to pull the sexism card just because a man makes an effort to protect a woman, then so be it. I will gladly throw generations of training in the toilet and the next time I am in the city and I see another woman get hurt by a couple of thugs (and it has happened before), then I will gladly turn my back even though she asks for help because she can take them all on by herself. And I won't even bother to call for help because who knows...the people that I call might end up sending a male or two and of course, the Feminazi sexism indicates that he does not do it for kindness or because it is part of his job. Instead he apparently does it in a pathetic attempt to woo her.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Yes, it is does. It shows they have no confidence in their own strengh, and therefore must rely on MEN for protection. That is FUCKING WEAK. I bet they do/did not teach their daughters to protect men, eh?
Again, if she asks for help from a man she is fucking weak. I beleive in equality, and chivlry takes away from that. This means a woman rely on a man for ANYTHING is stopping equality of the sexes by not showing she can look after herself. Also, I would be stupid enough to go near any area known to have thrugs/rapists on my own. I have never been mugged because I learn the area before going near it. I put my intelligence to good use. If there is at least one woman there to defend me along with the men if ever I were mugged, then I would be fine. If I witnessed a man or a woman being attacked I would first call the police and then do my best to help the person in need until they arrive. I have almost been in such a situation (the person who drunk so, it was a bit easier).
Men who think women need protection are sexist. That is why you never see two policewomen petroling the streets. There always at least one man there, as they think they would be able to hanlde things on their own. Both genders beleive both genders need equal protection not. For example, most mothers will protect both their children, but the father will only be protective of his daughter instead of caring about both genders equallity.
I did not say he would be doing it to woo her. They are doing it because they think she is weak. If he/you were to protect and assisst a man as much, then that is fine.
Finally, again, I believe in equality, not chavlry, both genders being helped/protected. I am not a Feminazi as I do not hate men in any why only crminals/human monsters, and they came in both genders of course.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
Actually, she never asks for it. She never asked for help when my father laid the first hand on her when I was little. I was there when she put him in his place and had him sent to the hospital because he came home in a drunken stooper trying to pin her to the floor. I was there when she was a single wife for six years and chose to teach herself to fix a car on her own as opposed to relying on calling a mechanic because she felt as though women needed to know these things because you cannot rely on most men to help you without them taking advantage of you in the process. I was there when I was attacked by two thugs in a bowling alley when I was twelve and they were mouthing off at me and noone did anything but watched while she went toe-to-toe with them. She IS a strong woman and she will sacrifice everything in order to provide and protect her children and future generations, but she views chivalry way differently from what you Fascist Neo-Feminists do. Where we are from, it is required that we men honor our life-givers by treating them like higher beings. We do not open doors for them because it means they are weak. We open them as a means of respect. We do not stand up at the table when they approach because we are sexist and we do not pull their chairs out for them because we think they are incapable of it, we do it because it is to honor them. Chivalry in this manner is a form of honoring our life-givers and if following an age old tradition means that it is sexist, then not only are you a Fascist Feminist, but an ethnocentric one at that and quite frankly, I do not need some Fascist telling me what she thinks I do it for when really, she has no clue of who I am, how my family works and customs work simply because she feels like she needs to bastardize Feminism by turning it into a witch hunt toward anything with a penis.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
My mother went through abuse by my father while she was pregnant with me and my brother after me, so do not act like you are something special. Also, if he was drunk he must not have known fully he was doing (though that is not an excuse). My father knew full well what he was doing. He did things he never did to his other daughter/my half-sister or her mother. My mother fell down stairs as he left her in the in the house alone with pregnant. She had a crawl across a road to phone an ambulance when she was given premature birth to me, and my survival (the abuse a secret) was so miraculous that I ended up in the newspaper, that and because I was the first baby in the west of Scotland to receive laser eye treatment to restore some of my eyesight. My mother was a single parent all our lives and got stigma and bullshit for it, too.
However, I am not selfish, and therefore know of tar worst cases than yours, and mine is also minor compared to a particular case. It was lucky the boy survived.
Did you not read the last part of my message? Let me repeat it: “. I am not a Feminazi as I do not hate men. I only hate criminals/human monsters, and they came in both genders of course. I am not a Fascist or a ‘neo-feminist’ (the opinion which you have NO evidence to support). I believe in equality. Did you not catch the ‘mostly male friends’ bit as well?
Again both genders should be treated the same. The fact that you idiots treat women different from men is why men are complaining in the modern day. I do not want to be treated ‘special’, I want to be treated HUMAN because that is what I am. Most traditions are steeped in sexism, like marriage, proposal, home ownership, always referring to a man’s/male/male pronouns name before a women in couples/things in general, etc.

PS: Those women who bastardise Feminism are not Feminists.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
:Facepalm: Way to miss the point because I was not trying to make myself special. The point I was stating there was that a woman can teach chivalry and still be a strong woman. Women do not have to be prissy bimbos to teach chivalry. A woman can have more male friends than females, do more tasks that most consider as being masculine and still expect their sons to be chivalrous. They look at both sexes as equals but still expects men to act like a gentleman out of respect for the women. Then again, a woman like you who would not understand that and would instead imply that every important person close to me as being less than worthy of the title of strong (and possibly less than human) simply because they do not think like you do. And you CLAIM that you do not hate men and are all about equality, but you have absolutely no problem with viewing me as a sexist and a womanizer even though those thoughts NOT ONCE crossed my mind when I held a door open for a woman, stood when she approached the supper table or pulled a chair out for her. I do those acts not because I find them weak, but because that is how I was raised, especially by the strong women in my family. I also do not do it to hit on them especially since I am not the type that intends on having a relationship to begin with. How is it that you would even consider viewing me as an equal when all you are doing is placing men like me into a box of stereotypes created by bias media and corrupted Feminism? That right there screams Feminist Fascism to me and quite frankly you can deny it all you want, but that is what you are. You are the very contradiction of what a feminist truly is. I know many Feminists and none of them are as radical as you are. They are the tolerant ones who despise you and understand that not everything is about men treating a woman as if they are weak. They are the true crusaders of equal rights among the sexes. You on the other hand, are nothing but a poser and a brain-washed sheep to radicals who enjoy crying sexism if a man even sneezed in your direction.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I understood it fully. I do have an IQ of 123. BTW, have you ever held of paragraph and categorizing? A massive wall of text with no break is very jarring to those who use proper grammar and writing.
No. They. Fucking. CANNOT! They are teaching men (and only men) to treat women (and only women) like delicate little flowers, and that they must be held in a higher regard to themselves, which is sexist. Unless they teach women to protect, look after, and pull out chairs/open doors for men as well, they are weak, and teaching a very archaic and frankly disgusting view.
Exactly. They teach men to act in a certain way to women will not teaching women to do with the same with men. How can you NOT see that as sexist?!
And where did I imply I thought you were a womaniser? See, you, like many other idiots, make assumptions of which you have not evidence to support. You are sexist, as you are saying that men should treat women differently from men just because they have boobs and a vagina and not a penis. That is not equality. I stand for equal treatment of the genders, and chivalry contradictions that. However, what can I expect from a brainwashed fool?
I did not place you in any stereotype, I am going on what you have placed here, idiot. You are the one stereotyping men with your assumptions, and non of those assumptions are even remotely correct, as U know myself better than anyone, and the same for almost everyone else. “Poser”? “Brain-washed sleep”? HA! What rubbish! You truly are stupid, as I am (again) none of them, but you are. And I do not cry sexist at the slightly thing either.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
And despite my reading comprehension issues, I have an IQ of 131 and sometimes I make a slip-up in writing. Just as long as you get the point, why bother? And if I am sexist because I do that for women, then I must be an ageist as well when I do it for the elderly and think that they are incapable of simple tasks like that and should be put in homes. Great logic you Feminist Fascists have. You know what, I do not know why I bother. My mother always warned me of intolerant flaws to society like you and right now, I know why. You fear customs different from yours all because it stands in the way of your method of controling every single human being on the face of the nation. So I am done with the sexism, the stereotypes...everything. I think my customs that the women have been raising me under as a way of respect far outweigh your intolerance so whether you like it or not, I will continue to practice it. I call an end to this discussion. I am not going to sit here and try and explain myself to a Fascist Feminazi. Good day to you.
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
How not putting a paragrath in a slip-up? Yes, we all make slip-ups, but that does not count as one. Like my mistake with the itaics. It was not meant to be all in them. Well, you help both genders of elderly, yes? And it can clearly be seen that they cannot do such things. Young/middle-aged women on the other hand? Unless they are disable, then they are pefectly capavble of defending themsevles. I am a disabled (I can barely see six metres in in front of me) and I can look after myself, provided I have my White Cane handy.
HAHA! Again, you spit out lies and inprovable asumptions. I do not 'fear' anything, as I am not some feminine wimp who squeals at the sight of a spider or any other incest, or goes queazy and litght-headed at the sight of blood, or rages at different views. This is me stern. If I was raging, you would know it full well. 'Intolerant'?! 'Intolerant"?! I am intelerant for aposing an archaic, disgusting, sexist tradition? I am 'intolerant' for wanting to be treated the same as a man (which is the whole reason Femininsm exists)? Good God you are a retard, and a macho-nazi. I would not be suprised if you were a member that mach-nazi, lying-spit group of morons known as the MRA.
I do not want to control anyone either, you lying prick.
Again, you did not answer me. Do you moronic parents/grandparents/whatever teach women to protect/pull out chairs for/open doors for men? BEcause, as I said, I do these things for both genders, and myself, as I am real modren woman.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
Let me guess...my mistake does not count as a slip-up because I have a penis?
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:iconnaokoelric2250:
NaokoElric2250 Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
No. Making more assumptions are we? I do not have a vendetta/haterd of men, neither does anyone who believes the same as I do.
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:iconnoctorno:
Noctorno Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2012
Well considering your hostility toward the customs I was raised under, you are no different from the Fascist Feminazis that I know in person who also state that men are illogical beings. Kind of fits that assumption on how I cannot make a slip up in typing, but you can even though I have a reason behind why I tend to have trouble writing. Apparently though you can make a mistake since you are a woman against chivalry, but that is a-okay since I come from a people that does not see things the same way you do. A people that you never bothered to learn about before wrongfully judging and stereotyping.
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