Actually the old church got things totally wrong through absolute ignorance and science proved them wring again and again. The church teachings had to change accordingly. This was the purpose of Vatican II, to bring the church teachings in alignment with reality.
Vatican II is completely ambiguous and the fruits are there for everyone to see: mainly only elderly priests left (very few vocations); young people are not interested; rock concerts in churches; priests who do not believe in the true presence; laity taking over the tasks of the priests; empty churches; strange, unheard before teachings; religious no longer interested in wearing their habits, etc. and watching TV in monasteries; homosexual infiltration of the priesthood resulting in the rape of little boys, etc., etc., etc.
No, the new church (which has a very short history of only 46 years) has gotten everything completely wrong. Christ did not come upon earth to make friends with all the other religions - he came to fulfill the prophecies and to establish His kingdom on earth (which can not be a mish-mash of all religions).
"Reality" is not liberal teachings and giving way to pressure groups. Reality is reality. The teachings of the Church should not bend down before the teachings of the world (which are per definition in absolute conflict with the teachings of God and His Church - as He has said many times Himself).
Science has not proven the Church wrong at all. If you're talking about evolution, don't forget it is only a theory, and many scientists are against that theory.
No, the new church (which has a very short history of only 46 years) has gotten everything completely wrong. Christ did not come upon earth to make friends with all the other religions - he came to fulfill the prophecies and to establish His kingdom on earth (which can not be a mish-mash of all religions).
"Reality" is not liberal teachings and giving way to pressure groups. Reality is reality. The teachings of the Church should not bend down before the teachings of the world (which are per definition in absolute conflict with the teachings of God and His Church - as He has said many times Himself).
Science has not proven the Church wrong at all. If you're talking about evolution, don't forget it is only a theory, and many scientists are against that theory.
Vatican II has nothing to do with the exodus of both priests and Catholics. There is no proven connection. Their were some very unhappy traditionalists who believed the mass should only be said in Latin (I had to learn Latin to be an altar boy) and the many other changes, but it actually resulted in more people remaining in the church. The sharp decline happened not just to Catholics but to other mainstream Christian religions as well. This loss has more to do the better education of people and a liberation of youth culturally, who see a big disconnect with the practice of Christianity and their beliefs, while other left because some churches stay n conflict with science, rather than embracing it. Science does not disprove God or the teachings of Jesus. The Catholic church is so out of touch with the rest of humanity that it will probably continue to decline until it makes some major changes.
Who are you to say What the intentions of Jesus were about other religions when Jesus never said anything to support your position. You dare to put meaning and words into the mouth of Jesus that were never uttered. Jesus in fact had a very, very clear message of Love, of turning the other cheek, of non-violence. I highly suggest that you actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John to see for yourself what the message of Jesus is.
Who are you to say What the intentions of Jesus were about other religions when Jesus never said anything to support your position. You dare to put meaning and words into the mouth of Jesus that were never uttered. Jesus in fact had a very, very clear message of Love, of turning the other cheek, of non-violence. I highly suggest that you actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John to see for yourself what the message of Jesus is.
Hello there, inspiredcreativity,
Very interesting to read all that you have to say to justify your homosexuality. I am heterosexual myself, and I find all that you have said remarkably well-worded, well-researched (from a modern point of view, which I find odd as you are discussing what have as their core Eternal Truths taught by an Ancient Church) and condescending. The problem with your arguments is that you use contemporary and non-Catholic arguments, arguments that hold up human rights exclusive to the Divine. The bible you quote? What is its date? Do you know that newer versions of the Bible have had whole books ripped out of them? The Douay Rheims Bible is one that keeps within itself all the books traditionally handed down from the time of the Apostles. But I am not going to throw Bible quotes at you. It's a waste of time. People have been falsely interpreting the Bible for centuries. Instead, I am merely going to say to you that your wild efforts to condone and justify your unnatural and perverse way of life by your humanistic volunteer is a work which in fact enables you to "counsel" that is, corrupt, susceptible young minds. So you will fair better on judgment day? In front of a just Judge? How do you sleep at night? Don't think you can cover your sins by humanistic work. You are living a lie.
The Catholic Church has never condoned homosexuality. Why? Because, although the Catholic Church thrives on Grace, Grace builds on the Natural Order. Don't know what that means? Then don't attempt to quote Canon Law. Simple. Go read the Summa Theologica. Go read The Catechism of the Council of Trent. Educate yourself, and then attempt to justify your gross lifestyle by using "Catholic" arguments. Notice I'm not touching on anything post Vatican Council II. Why? Because it was a Pastoral Council, and therefore none of its tenets are Dogmatic or Infallible.
The Moral Law is written on the heart of man. Did God create two Adams? Two Eves? Homosexuality is a perversion of the generative gifts God has given to men and women. You, Sir, with your golden tongue, are a living perversion of those gifts. The fact is, homosexuals such as yourself throw vain words and arguments around about Christ's Love and Mercy, all the while taking advantage of said Love and Mercy, so that you can satisfy and justify your disgusting bend to subverse God's natural order. And you dare to quote His Scriptures, to give advice! You are a son of the Devil, whether you mean to be or no. You appear to be a Scriptural expert. Recall anything being said about not mocking God? You cannot live any old way you please just because you cannot control your wayward passions. So you will fair better on judgment day? While you stand there, fairing better, remember these conversations you have had, quoting Christ, His Love and Mercy. Quote all that back to Him.
Good Luck, Sir.
Very interesting to read all that you have to say to justify your homosexuality. I am heterosexual myself, and I find all that you have said remarkably well-worded, well-researched (from a modern point of view, which I find odd as you are discussing what have as their core Eternal Truths taught by an Ancient Church) and condescending. The problem with your arguments is that you use contemporary and non-Catholic arguments, arguments that hold up human rights exclusive to the Divine. The bible you quote? What is its date? Do you know that newer versions of the Bible have had whole books ripped out of them? The Douay Rheims Bible is one that keeps within itself all the books traditionally handed down from the time of the Apostles. But I am not going to throw Bible quotes at you. It's a waste of time. People have been falsely interpreting the Bible for centuries. Instead, I am merely going to say to you that your wild efforts to condone and justify your unnatural and perverse way of life by your humanistic volunteer is a work which in fact enables you to "counsel" that is, corrupt, susceptible young minds. So you will fair better on judgment day? In front of a just Judge? How do you sleep at night? Don't think you can cover your sins by humanistic work. You are living a lie.
The Catholic Church has never condoned homosexuality. Why? Because, although the Catholic Church thrives on Grace, Grace builds on the Natural Order. Don't know what that means? Then don't attempt to quote Canon Law. Simple. Go read the Summa Theologica. Go read The Catechism of the Council of Trent. Educate yourself, and then attempt to justify your gross lifestyle by using "Catholic" arguments. Notice I'm not touching on anything post Vatican Council II. Why? Because it was a Pastoral Council, and therefore none of its tenets are Dogmatic or Infallible.
The Moral Law is written on the heart of man. Did God create two Adams? Two Eves? Homosexuality is a perversion of the generative gifts God has given to men and women. You, Sir, with your golden tongue, are a living perversion of those gifts. The fact is, homosexuals such as yourself throw vain words and arguments around about Christ's Love and Mercy, all the while taking advantage of said Love and Mercy, so that you can satisfy and justify your disgusting bend to subverse God's natural order. And you dare to quote His Scriptures, to give advice! You are a son of the Devil, whether you mean to be or no. You appear to be a Scriptural expert. Recall anything being said about not mocking God? You cannot live any old way you please just because you cannot control your wayward passions. So you will fair better on judgment day? While you stand there, fairing better, remember these conversations you have had, quoting Christ, His Love and Mercy. Quote all that back to Him.
Good Luck, Sir.
Hi,
This is a very important issue since those who believe like you do are responsible for the murders, torture, imprisonment, harassment, and discrimination of millions of human beings, all in the name of Jesus. Half of all the boys who kill themselves or attempt to kills themselves are homosexual or bisexual, driven to it by the intolerance, bigotry and hate of people like you. Christian behavior against homosexuals goes against the very teachings of Jesus. I cannot see how you can possibly read the teachings of Jesus and his two Great Commandments, and commit such sins either in thought or action.
No matter how you look at it, neither Jesus, Paul, nor anyone else in the New Testament, said anything about homosexuality being wrong. I challenge you to read every single word of Jesus (Matthew, Mark, Luke & John) and find even a hint of it. It is only people, human translators who say that Paul was against homosexuality, not the original words of the the New Testament books, which were written in Coptic greek. Jesus was exposed to homosexuality throughout his life, as he was raised in a city heavily populated by Roman citizens and Roman Garrisons who practiced homosexuality openly, as well as some homosexual Hebrews who kept it more hidden. Yet Jesus never mentioned a thing about it, and since this issue would be used to murder, torture, imprison and drive to suicide millions of human beings, all in his name, don’t you think he would have said something?
The Catholic church did not even take a stand against homosexuality until AD1100. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah was not even translated as having anything to do with homosexuality until AD1100 when it was retranslated by Peter Damien. This was when the church shifted from recruiting Pagans to killing pagans with the purpose to wipe them from the face of the earth, and homosexuality was viewed incorrectly as a pagan thing.
The original New Testament was written in Coptic Greek and there is no word for homosexual, homosexuality or even same-sex sex in that language. Translators took two words and paired them together and claimed it meant homosexual sex, but that was a lie and those words do not translate that way at all. If you want to see the actual translation proof write-up, look in the PDF on this page.
Even now the bible is riddled with translation errors because translation is an interpretation. There is no way to directly translate Coptic Greek int latin or the modern languages.
Worse, there are translation error just going from one english bible to the next. Here is an example. If you go to biblehub.com/1_corinthians/13-… you will see Paul’s verse 1 Corinthians 13:13, in 22 different English bibles.
A few of the bibles use the word Charity: And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
The rest of the bibles use the word Love: And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
The original definition of the word Charity (still to be found in the dictionary) was: Universal Love for Your Fellow Mankind. This has now been translated into the single word Love. The word ‘Love’ does not at all convey the same message as ‘Universal love for your fellow mankind.’
The bible is riddled with translation errors that change the meanings of things, all based on the interpretation of whoever is doing the translating.
You said, “Grace builds on the Natural Order.” Yet homosexuality is found throughout nature with thousands of examples in the animal and mammal kingdoms. Homosexuality is in the Human Genome and even tied to human fecundity, which means it is tied to the continuation of the human species.
The science is so well researched that even the Catholic Church now officially says the homosexuals are born that way. Then they go on to say that this burden they are born with is a test of their faith, blah, blah.
If homosexuals are born homosexual and it is part of the human genome, then it is natural and part of God’s plan. Who are you to question God's plan?
You talk about Judgment Day, and I will tell you that it is YOU who have something to fear, for you sin in the name of Jesus and God, justifying bigotry and discrimination in the name of God. It is you who have perverted the teachings of Jesus to justify your evil. I have devoted my life, for the last 25 years, to do full time volunteer work to feed the hungry, care for the sick and dying, and counsel those who are depressed and suffer form other mental illnesses. Since I was 8 years old I have strived daily to become a better person, and in all probability live with a value system far stricter than yours. I have controlled my passion very well, how about you?
Your lips flap but what are you doing to actually follow the teachings and mission of Jesus, other than driving children and adults to suicide and working to discriminate agains an entire class of people? Blood is not so easily washed from your hands on Judgement Day, no matter how much you try to wrap yourself in righteousness. Your actions have consequences, even if they are indirect. People like you spread hate and intolerance, leading to violence against others, even if not by your own hand.
I avoid judging people and do not like doing it, but in this case I reflect your judgement against me, back on you. I would as soon be left alone. I do not seek out Bigoted Christians to send hate or attack mail to them, not do I discriminate in any way against them, or shut hateful words at them like people like you do. When I moved into a neighborhood with my husband, we were told that a meeting had been held about how to harass us enough to force us to move, and they talked about protecting heir children from being molested and worried about their property values. Our response was to go to a neighbor and invite them to dinner. Luckily they were polite enough to come. It went very well and we continued to invite neighbors over for dinner, and I would run over and help when I saw other working on their homes , since I know the building trades, and helping with landscaping. In about 6 months we had many freinds and they had all changed their minds about homosexuals. They no longer objectified us as you do and they saw as as human beings, good and decent human beings that did not match all of the lies told to them by priests and ministers. We even did some babysitting and helped boys build a tree house. We did not meet bigotry with bigotry, we reached out in a loving way and they responded in a loving way. I fear that most booted Christians are only that way because it is what they were taught. Once they actually get to know homosexuals, most will no longer be bigoted.
I will also note how many Christian churches, including mainstream churches that not only realize that homosexuality is NOT A SIN, they will even marry homosexual couples. You will see a long list of such churches listed above under my Artist comments.
There is a prohibition against premarital sex for ALL people, but marriage does not have to be by a priest to be a holy union. I sure hope you have not comitted this terrible sin. Premarital sex is a sin just as you claim homosexual sex is, even when homosexuals are married by ministers, so why do you not campaign to bar heterosexual who commit the sin of premarital sex, to see them imprisoned for their sin, unable to get a job, be spit on by other Christians and ostracized? You live by a double-standard. You apply draconian treatment of homosexuals who you claim sin, but not against other sinners, even murderers and rapists. This again illustrates your Bigotry.
You are not satisfied to let people who are born different from you be allowed to have equal rights. Is this a Christian value? If you say, ‘Yes,” then you spit on Jesus and his message.
Some Christians also seem to believe that it is Ok to lie and deceive, to publish what they know to be absolute lies about homosexuality. I guess it is Ok to sin if you do it in the name of God, or saying it is to save souls, or it is a Christian war so we can commit any atrocity or sin to battle it?
Christians keep trying to tie homosexuality to pedophilia, yet the ‘percentage rate’ of molestation of children and teens by heterosexuals, is higher than homosexuals. Straight men are more likely to molest a child than homosexual men (sex with a person under the legal age of consent where they live).
Have you seen the poll commissioned by the Catholic church (American) that found that 72% of Catholics approved of torture, compared to 65% of White Protestants & Evangelicals, and only 51% of seculars. This suggests that Catholics are the most immoral and bloodthirsty and that those who do not even believe in God are more moral by far that Catholics and the Christians.
Link to Article: natcath.org/NCR_Online/archive…
I get attacked by people like you are a regular basis. You drop civility and throw insults, setting an example for children to hate like you do. My worse attack came from a teenage Christina girl spewing pure hate, hoping I would die a horrible death, etc. Who do you think taught her and so many others how to hate so passionately? It was Christians of your ilk.
Thank goodness for real Christians who are good people, who follow the teachings of Jesus, because they are the hope for the future. People like you give Christianity a bad name. If the law allowed it, as it did not so long ago, would you not be condoning the torture of homosexuals, which was done all the way up into the 1970s, with electrical shock to the genitals, repeatedly daily, for months, including on children, or the lobotomies performed, scraping out parts of there brains and turning them into vegetables, years of imprisonment, gangs of Christian men and boys, egged on by their women-folk, hunting and murdering homosexuals.
All of that was done by Christians just like you, only they were given a wider hand to vent their hate. If you were unleashed by the law, what would you do to a class of people who’s only fault was to be born the way God created them?
You are a BIGOT by the very definition of the word, and you try to hide behind a church for justification. It is like the Ten Commandments, where it says you shall not kill, it does not go onward to say except to kill prisoners or criminals, nor does it say it is ok to kill in wars. But you find ways to justify evil acts, and the very worst are the ones committed in the name of God and Jesus. When you spew your intolerance at me, it can be seen by thousands of young Sexual Minority people. You will claim it is to save them, but Sexual Minority people can no more change their Sexual Orientation than they can change the color of their skin or their race. Therefore, your words are aimed to cause suffering, and if that suffering leads to death by suicide, or incites hate in others to murder Sexual Minorities, then the sin of murder is on YOU.
Do you even consider consequences when you spew out your hateful and intolerant words? Do you even consider the suffering that can result? Odds are you do, and you can justify it all by calling yourself a Christian soldier in a Christian war and there are bound to be casualties in the war to save souls. I have been on the receiving end of Christian hatred since I was 12 years old and I am now 59.
Bigoted Christians like you, as apposed to un-bigoted Christians, want a class of people they can look down on and feel superior to, feel like you are fundamentally better than them, and you desire to impose your will on them, enjoying it and getting off on it. If you cannot lift yourself up, why not tear down others.
Whenever you speak against homosexuals, you add to pressure that results in death, suicide and discrimination. How about the 11-year-old kids who killed themselves because of anti-gay bullying and bigotry, and the tens of thousands of other children around the world each year who die because of people like you. You personally have now contributed to this by posting to a page frequented by young people. Pontius Pilot found that the blood did not so easily wash from his hands. You may not ever know the consequences of your actions here, by god will on Judgment Day.
Would you like to take a look at some of the young children and teens driven to suicide by bigoted Christians like you? See how young they are. Look at their faces and read their short stories:
The Faces of Teen Suicide
I am perfectly content to never say any words against bigoted Christians, but you (as in bigoted Christians) seem to feel obliged to attack me, and worse, children, teens and young adults. I therefore reply.
I have no hate for bigoted Christians, despite how much suffering you have caused in this world, including that directed against me. I reached a state of forgiveness and let go of all of that negative energy. But if people keep insisting on attacking me, then sometimes I feel I must reply to correct the record. I am not trying to save your soul because only you can do that, it is your own journey.
I also must let sexual minority youth and others who read this page understand your true disingenuous intent, your bigoted nature and the lies you tell. I try to show them the true Christian message of Jesus and God, and not the hate and intolerant distorted version that the Catholic church and some other Christian churches teach. I am heartened by the fact that the human race is moving towards full acceptance of homosexuality. Just as the church once insisted that the earth was flat and the sun and universe orbited around the earth, murdering people who said otherwise (in the name of god), the church will one day see the light and change their policy and correct the mistranslations of Paul.
Eventually, human decency and sense of right and wrong will end the widespread discrimination agains Sexual Minorities.
Having spent some time in New Zealand, with people who opened their home to a total stranger, and getting to meet some amazingly friendly people, most knowing I was Gay, I have to say I am very disappointed to see people like you and your compatriot representing your country, two people proud of their bigotry.
I do not want you to ever post to one of my pages again, since your message is one of intolerance and hate. If you do, I will have to ban you. You had your say and I had mine and further conversation will go nowhere and be a waste of time. If your New Zealand Christian Bigot group wants to keep harassing me, I will just keep banning them and hiding their comments, then report the spamming to DA Admin.
Finally, I would suggest that instead of spending your time pointing your finger at other people and the sins you perceive them as having committed, that you instead get a life and look to the state of your own soul.
I bid you adieu.
This is a very important issue since those who believe like you do are responsible for the murders, torture, imprisonment, harassment, and discrimination of millions of human beings, all in the name of Jesus. Half of all the boys who kill themselves or attempt to kills themselves are homosexual or bisexual, driven to it by the intolerance, bigotry and hate of people like you. Christian behavior against homosexuals goes against the very teachings of Jesus. I cannot see how you can possibly read the teachings of Jesus and his two Great Commandments, and commit such sins either in thought or action.
No matter how you look at it, neither Jesus, Paul, nor anyone else in the New Testament, said anything about homosexuality being wrong. I challenge you to read every single word of Jesus (Matthew, Mark, Luke & John) and find even a hint of it. It is only people, human translators who say that Paul was against homosexuality, not the original words of the the New Testament books, which were written in Coptic greek. Jesus was exposed to homosexuality throughout his life, as he was raised in a city heavily populated by Roman citizens and Roman Garrisons who practiced homosexuality openly, as well as some homosexual Hebrews who kept it more hidden. Yet Jesus never mentioned a thing about it, and since this issue would be used to murder, torture, imprison and drive to suicide millions of human beings, all in his name, don’t you think he would have said something?
The Catholic church did not even take a stand against homosexuality until AD1100. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah was not even translated as having anything to do with homosexuality until AD1100 when it was retranslated by Peter Damien. This was when the church shifted from recruiting Pagans to killing pagans with the purpose to wipe them from the face of the earth, and homosexuality was viewed incorrectly as a pagan thing.
The original New Testament was written in Coptic Greek and there is no word for homosexual, homosexuality or even same-sex sex in that language. Translators took two words and paired them together and claimed it meant homosexual sex, but that was a lie and those words do not translate that way at all. If you want to see the actual translation proof write-up, look in the PDF on this page.
Even now the bible is riddled with translation errors because translation is an interpretation. There is no way to directly translate Coptic Greek int latin or the modern languages.
Worse, there are translation error just going from one english bible to the next. Here is an example. If you go to biblehub.com/1_corinthians/13-… you will see Paul’s verse 1 Corinthians 13:13, in 22 different English bibles.
A few of the bibles use the word Charity: And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
The rest of the bibles use the word Love: And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
The original definition of the word Charity (still to be found in the dictionary) was: Universal Love for Your Fellow Mankind. This has now been translated into the single word Love. The word ‘Love’ does not at all convey the same message as ‘Universal love for your fellow mankind.’
The bible is riddled with translation errors that change the meanings of things, all based on the interpretation of whoever is doing the translating.
You said, “Grace builds on the Natural Order.” Yet homosexuality is found throughout nature with thousands of examples in the animal and mammal kingdoms. Homosexuality is in the Human Genome and even tied to human fecundity, which means it is tied to the continuation of the human species.
The science is so well researched that even the Catholic Church now officially says the homosexuals are born that way. Then they go on to say that this burden they are born with is a test of their faith, blah, blah.
If homosexuals are born homosexual and it is part of the human genome, then it is natural and part of God’s plan. Who are you to question God's plan?
You talk about Judgment Day, and I will tell you that it is YOU who have something to fear, for you sin in the name of Jesus and God, justifying bigotry and discrimination in the name of God. It is you who have perverted the teachings of Jesus to justify your evil. I have devoted my life, for the last 25 years, to do full time volunteer work to feed the hungry, care for the sick and dying, and counsel those who are depressed and suffer form other mental illnesses. Since I was 8 years old I have strived daily to become a better person, and in all probability live with a value system far stricter than yours. I have controlled my passion very well, how about you?
Your lips flap but what are you doing to actually follow the teachings and mission of Jesus, other than driving children and adults to suicide and working to discriminate agains an entire class of people? Blood is not so easily washed from your hands on Judgement Day, no matter how much you try to wrap yourself in righteousness. Your actions have consequences, even if they are indirect. People like you spread hate and intolerance, leading to violence against others, even if not by your own hand.
I avoid judging people and do not like doing it, but in this case I reflect your judgement against me, back on you. I would as soon be left alone. I do not seek out Bigoted Christians to send hate or attack mail to them, not do I discriminate in any way against them, or shut hateful words at them like people like you do. When I moved into a neighborhood with my husband, we were told that a meeting had been held about how to harass us enough to force us to move, and they talked about protecting heir children from being molested and worried about their property values. Our response was to go to a neighbor and invite them to dinner. Luckily they were polite enough to come. It went very well and we continued to invite neighbors over for dinner, and I would run over and help when I saw other working on their homes , since I know the building trades, and helping with landscaping. In about 6 months we had many freinds and they had all changed their minds about homosexuals. They no longer objectified us as you do and they saw as as human beings, good and decent human beings that did not match all of the lies told to them by priests and ministers. We even did some babysitting and helped boys build a tree house. We did not meet bigotry with bigotry, we reached out in a loving way and they responded in a loving way. I fear that most booted Christians are only that way because it is what they were taught. Once they actually get to know homosexuals, most will no longer be bigoted.
I will also note how many Christian churches, including mainstream churches that not only realize that homosexuality is NOT A SIN, they will even marry homosexual couples. You will see a long list of such churches listed above under my Artist comments.
There is a prohibition against premarital sex for ALL people, but marriage does not have to be by a priest to be a holy union. I sure hope you have not comitted this terrible sin. Premarital sex is a sin just as you claim homosexual sex is, even when homosexuals are married by ministers, so why do you not campaign to bar heterosexual who commit the sin of premarital sex, to see them imprisoned for their sin, unable to get a job, be spit on by other Christians and ostracized? You live by a double-standard. You apply draconian treatment of homosexuals who you claim sin, but not against other sinners, even murderers and rapists. This again illustrates your Bigotry.
You are not satisfied to let people who are born different from you be allowed to have equal rights. Is this a Christian value? If you say, ‘Yes,” then you spit on Jesus and his message.
Some Christians also seem to believe that it is Ok to lie and deceive, to publish what they know to be absolute lies about homosexuality. I guess it is Ok to sin if you do it in the name of God, or saying it is to save souls, or it is a Christian war so we can commit any atrocity or sin to battle it?
Christians keep trying to tie homosexuality to pedophilia, yet the ‘percentage rate’ of molestation of children and teens by heterosexuals, is higher than homosexuals. Straight men are more likely to molest a child than homosexual men (sex with a person under the legal age of consent where they live).
Have you seen the poll commissioned by the Catholic church (American) that found that 72% of Catholics approved of torture, compared to 65% of White Protestants & Evangelicals, and only 51% of seculars. This suggests that Catholics are the most immoral and bloodthirsty and that those who do not even believe in God are more moral by far that Catholics and the Christians.
Link to Article: natcath.org/NCR_Online/archive…
I get attacked by people like you are a regular basis. You drop civility and throw insults, setting an example for children to hate like you do. My worse attack came from a teenage Christina girl spewing pure hate, hoping I would die a horrible death, etc. Who do you think taught her and so many others how to hate so passionately? It was Christians of your ilk.
Thank goodness for real Christians who are good people, who follow the teachings of Jesus, because they are the hope for the future. People like you give Christianity a bad name. If the law allowed it, as it did not so long ago, would you not be condoning the torture of homosexuals, which was done all the way up into the 1970s, with electrical shock to the genitals, repeatedly daily, for months, including on children, or the lobotomies performed, scraping out parts of there brains and turning them into vegetables, years of imprisonment, gangs of Christian men and boys, egged on by their women-folk, hunting and murdering homosexuals.
All of that was done by Christians just like you, only they were given a wider hand to vent their hate. If you were unleashed by the law, what would you do to a class of people who’s only fault was to be born the way God created them?
You are a BIGOT by the very definition of the word, and you try to hide behind a church for justification. It is like the Ten Commandments, where it says you shall not kill, it does not go onward to say except to kill prisoners or criminals, nor does it say it is ok to kill in wars. But you find ways to justify evil acts, and the very worst are the ones committed in the name of God and Jesus. When you spew your intolerance at me, it can be seen by thousands of young Sexual Minority people. You will claim it is to save them, but Sexual Minority people can no more change their Sexual Orientation than they can change the color of their skin or their race. Therefore, your words are aimed to cause suffering, and if that suffering leads to death by suicide, or incites hate in others to murder Sexual Minorities, then the sin of murder is on YOU.
Do you even consider consequences when you spew out your hateful and intolerant words? Do you even consider the suffering that can result? Odds are you do, and you can justify it all by calling yourself a Christian soldier in a Christian war and there are bound to be casualties in the war to save souls. I have been on the receiving end of Christian hatred since I was 12 years old and I am now 59.
Bigoted Christians like you, as apposed to un-bigoted Christians, want a class of people they can look down on and feel superior to, feel like you are fundamentally better than them, and you desire to impose your will on them, enjoying it and getting off on it. If you cannot lift yourself up, why not tear down others.
Whenever you speak against homosexuals, you add to pressure that results in death, suicide and discrimination. How about the 11-year-old kids who killed themselves because of anti-gay bullying and bigotry, and the tens of thousands of other children around the world each year who die because of people like you. You personally have now contributed to this by posting to a page frequented by young people. Pontius Pilot found that the blood did not so easily wash from his hands. You may not ever know the consequences of your actions here, by god will on Judgment Day.
Would you like to take a look at some of the young children and teens driven to suicide by bigoted Christians like you? See how young they are. Look at their faces and read their short stories:
The Faces of Teen SuicideI am perfectly content to never say any words against bigoted Christians, but you (as in bigoted Christians) seem to feel obliged to attack me, and worse, children, teens and young adults. I therefore reply.
I have no hate for bigoted Christians, despite how much suffering you have caused in this world, including that directed against me. I reached a state of forgiveness and let go of all of that negative energy. But if people keep insisting on attacking me, then sometimes I feel I must reply to correct the record. I am not trying to save your soul because only you can do that, it is your own journey.
I also must let sexual minority youth and others who read this page understand your true disingenuous intent, your bigoted nature and the lies you tell. I try to show them the true Christian message of Jesus and God, and not the hate and intolerant distorted version that the Catholic church and some other Christian churches teach. I am heartened by the fact that the human race is moving towards full acceptance of homosexuality. Just as the church once insisted that the earth was flat and the sun and universe orbited around the earth, murdering people who said otherwise (in the name of god), the church will one day see the light and change their policy and correct the mistranslations of Paul.
Eventually, human decency and sense of right and wrong will end the widespread discrimination agains Sexual Minorities.
Having spent some time in New Zealand, with people who opened their home to a total stranger, and getting to meet some amazingly friendly people, most knowing I was Gay, I have to say I am very disappointed to see people like you and your compatriot representing your country, two people proud of their bigotry.
I do not want you to ever post to one of my pages again, since your message is one of intolerance and hate. If you do, I will have to ban you. You had your say and I had mine and further conversation will go nowhere and be a waste of time. If your New Zealand Christian Bigot group wants to keep harassing me, I will just keep banning them and hiding their comments, then report the spamming to DA Admin.
Finally, I would suggest that instead of spending your time pointing your finger at other people and the sins you perceive them as having committed, that you instead get a life and look to the state of your own soul.
I bid you adieu.
Immediately after Vatican II, many Catholics dropped the Faith. I know many personally, including my father. Not until they discovered tradition (the original Latin Mass) did they pick up their Faith again. Many priests of Vatican II do not even believe in the true presence in the Eucharist any more. The connection between Vatican II and the mass loss of Faith in the religious and laity is astoundingly obvious. When the Church's teachings become watered down and ambiguous, people naturally ask themselves, "what's the point?".
Our Lord's words are clear and He Himself stated the world would hate Him and His followers. He was persecuted from birth until death. The world is not His friend and Christ's Church can not be friends with the liberal world - that is a clear contradiction.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". Not through Buddha, not through Mohammad, not through the god of the Satanic religion, etc.
Don't mess with the words of Our Lord. He has warned us that there is grave punishment for those who do.
Our Lord's words are clear and He Himself stated the world would hate Him and His followers. He was persecuted from birth until death. The world is not His friend and Christ's Church can not be friends with the liberal world - that is a clear contradiction.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". Not through Buddha, not through Mohammad, not through the god of the Satanic religion, etc.
Don't mess with the words of Our Lord. He has warned us that there is grave punishment for those who do.
How in the world can you possibly know if Jesus was persecutees in his younger years? There is no record of it. There are Catholic churches who marry Gay couples, churches that are offshoots of the mother church. When priests and people become disaffected with their church, and reform appears impossible, they often form their own branch of the faith.
What does saying the mass in Latin have anything to do with your faith in christ, or how good of a Christian you are? Do you want to be deaf as to the true meaning of the words of the mass? Latin is not the language of Justus nor is the language of the New Testament, it is Coptic Greek. The only 'true' mass, it would seem, would have to be in Coptic Greek.
Again, I would ask you to actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and hear the message of Jesus Christ. You say that the world is not the friend of Jesus, but Jesus would disagree, as you can see in his words. As far as Jesus is concerned, all of humanity is his friend and he has a universal love for his fellow mankind.
You talk about messing with the words of Jesus and it is you who keep distorting his very clear message. Jesus is not about hate. Hate is a thing of man, something in you. Free your heart and should of hate. The path to heaven is in Loving God and loving your fellow mankind.
What does saying the mass in Latin have anything to do with your faith in christ, or how good of a Christian you are? Do you want to be deaf as to the true meaning of the words of the mass? Latin is not the language of Justus nor is the language of the New Testament, it is Coptic Greek. The only 'true' mass, it would seem, would have to be in Coptic Greek.
Again, I would ask you to actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and hear the message of Jesus Christ. You say that the world is not the friend of Jesus, but Jesus would disagree, as you can see in his words. As far as Jesus is concerned, all of humanity is his friend and he has a universal love for his fellow mankind.
You talk about messing with the words of Jesus and it is you who keep distorting his very clear message. Jesus is not about hate. Hate is a thing of man, something in you. Free your heart and should of hate. The path to heaven is in Loving God and loving your fellow mankind.
Point one: The persecution of Our Lord began at his birth into this world. All male babies/infants were put to death in the area of Bethlehem as soon as Herod the Great found out about the birth place and time of the King of the Jews. Jesus had a price on His head from the moment He was born. The children murdered are called the Holy Innocents. The Bible records this event in very clear language so to say He wasn't persecuted at that age is just silly. The persecution was unsuccessful, but persecution is persecution nonetheless.
Point two: Saying the Mass in Latin means nothing. Saying the traditional Mass in Latin means very much. As you may know, the modern Novus Ordo Mass can also be said in Latin (as it is done today in Rome). The language is not the issue - the words of the Mass are. In the Novus Ordo (New Order) Mass, there is no mention of "sacrifice". Mention of Our Lady is kept to a minimum if it is there at all (these changes were made to keep Protestants happy). The traditional Mass focuses on Our Lord and His sacrifice. That is why the priest faces the altar, and the tabernacle (and what it holds) is where all attention is given. The people participate in a passive way. The Mass is perfectly valid even if no faithful are present.
The Novus Ordo Mass focuses on "celebration" of the Eucharist. This is already an ambiguous term and the concept of sacrifice or even transubstantiation is nowhere to be seen. The people and the gathering is the main focus of this Mass.
The reason the Mass has been in Latin for so many hundreds of years is a) it was the language of Rome, and it is the Roman Catholic Church, and b) because Latin is what we call a "dead language". This means it does not change or evolve. This is very appropriate because God and the sacrifice of Our Lord does not change or evolve. God "is". Making the Mass in the vernacular is not an evil in itself. The problem is, "living" languages DO change and evolve. Words in English change all the time. This leads to all sorts of complications as the Fathers of the Church foresaw. The use of Latin also lends an air of sacredness to the sacrifice of the Mass. Many non-Catholics who attend a traditional Mass have said so. It is not a rock-concert, happy-clappy, dancing-girl Mass. It is the Holy Mass. If people want entertainment, they'll go to places of entertainment. If people seek God, they want to see, hear and experience things that will draw them into the presence of God. This is one of the major reasons so many have lost the Faith since Vatican II - the Novus Ordo Mass offers nothing more than an empty Protestant "service". (We used to be part of the Novus Ordo).
Point three: Jesus is not about hate. God is just. He will demand justice. "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap". Jesus speaks of Hell in 46 verses of the New Testament. It is real and Matthew also state,"How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it". Also, (in the words of Our Lord Himself), "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first". Matthew again, "No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon". Mammon basically meaning wealth and worldly pleasures - the promise of the world ("money will make you happy!"). We, as Catholics, can not be servants of God and of the world - the two are incompatible.
Yes, God loves all of mankind. He does not, however, love the spirit of the world (which the majority of us follow). The spirit of the world is sin, quite simply. "Do as you please" is the maxim of the world. This is also the first commandment in the Satanic bible. See any connection?
We love our neighbour because he is created by God. Sin, we can not love - yet we love (supernaturally - that is, the the grace of God) sinners. This does not mean condoning their sin! Of course not! Jesus didn't say to the woman caught in adultery, "You are forgiven. Go and carry on as before" - He said, "Go, and SIN NO MORE" (my stress on the words). Loving our neighbour means to help him, with humility, in obtaining God - not in condoning his sins as the world would have it. Same with ourselves. We must hate sin (for it turns us away from God). We do not hate any person for it is only by the grace of God that we ourselves do not commit far worse sins.
Point two: Saying the Mass in Latin means nothing. Saying the traditional Mass in Latin means very much. As you may know, the modern Novus Ordo Mass can also be said in Latin (as it is done today in Rome). The language is not the issue - the words of the Mass are. In the Novus Ordo (New Order) Mass, there is no mention of "sacrifice". Mention of Our Lady is kept to a minimum if it is there at all (these changes were made to keep Protestants happy). The traditional Mass focuses on Our Lord and His sacrifice. That is why the priest faces the altar, and the tabernacle (and what it holds) is where all attention is given. The people participate in a passive way. The Mass is perfectly valid even if no faithful are present.
The Novus Ordo Mass focuses on "celebration" of the Eucharist. This is already an ambiguous term and the concept of sacrifice or even transubstantiation is nowhere to be seen. The people and the gathering is the main focus of this Mass.
The reason the Mass has been in Latin for so many hundreds of years is a) it was the language of Rome, and it is the Roman Catholic Church, and b) because Latin is what we call a "dead language". This means it does not change or evolve. This is very appropriate because God and the sacrifice of Our Lord does not change or evolve. God "is". Making the Mass in the vernacular is not an evil in itself. The problem is, "living" languages DO change and evolve. Words in English change all the time. This leads to all sorts of complications as the Fathers of the Church foresaw. The use of Latin also lends an air of sacredness to the sacrifice of the Mass. Many non-Catholics who attend a traditional Mass have said so. It is not a rock-concert, happy-clappy, dancing-girl Mass. It is the Holy Mass. If people want entertainment, they'll go to places of entertainment. If people seek God, they want to see, hear and experience things that will draw them into the presence of God. This is one of the major reasons so many have lost the Faith since Vatican II - the Novus Ordo Mass offers nothing more than an empty Protestant "service". (We used to be part of the Novus Ordo).
Point three: Jesus is not about hate. God is just. He will demand justice. "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap". Jesus speaks of Hell in 46 verses of the New Testament. It is real and Matthew also state,"How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it". Also, (in the words of Our Lord Himself), "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first". Matthew again, "No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon". Mammon basically meaning wealth and worldly pleasures - the promise of the world ("money will make you happy!"). We, as Catholics, can not be servants of God and of the world - the two are incompatible.
Yes, God loves all of mankind. He does not, however, love the spirit of the world (which the majority of us follow). The spirit of the world is sin, quite simply. "Do as you please" is the maxim of the world. This is also the first commandment in the Satanic bible. See any connection?
We love our neighbour because he is created by God. Sin, we can not love - yet we love (supernaturally - that is, the the grace of God) sinners. This does not mean condoning their sin! Of course not! Jesus didn't say to the woman caught in adultery, "You are forgiven. Go and carry on as before" - He said, "Go, and SIN NO MORE" (my stress on the words). Loving our neighbour means to help him, with humility, in obtaining God - not in condoning his sins as the world would have it. Same with ourselves. We must hate sin (for it turns us away from God). We do not hate any person for it is only by the grace of God that we ourselves do not commit far worse sins.
We could toss bible quotes back and forth to eternity and get nowhere. I would suggest that you interpret each sentence in the New Testament in the context of what was being written about in that section. Instead of looking at snippets of words for the New Testament, I asked you to read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John concerning the teachings of Jesus, in order to hear and understand the messages of Jesus. It does no good to read with an eye to look for just specific things to support your own beliefs and biases.
Again, you presume that homosexuality is a sin and it is not. It is not a sin anywhere in the New Testament and it is not even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah when translated from Hebrew. The Catholic church never interpreted Sodom and Gomorrah as having anything to do with homosexuality until AD1100, when Peter Damian interpreted it that way by claiming that the word "KNOW" in the story means to know the people of Sodom in a sexual way, even though that word is not used that way elsewhere in the Old Testament. Even the Jewish faith never interpreted the story as having anything to do with homosexuality.
As I said in my other comment, we will not agree an anything, so further discussion is pointless and I need the time for my volunteer work. So I bid you farewell.
Again, you presume that homosexuality is a sin and it is not. It is not a sin anywhere in the New Testament and it is not even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah when translated from Hebrew. The Catholic church never interpreted Sodom and Gomorrah as having anything to do with homosexuality until AD1100, when Peter Damian interpreted it that way by claiming that the word "KNOW" in the story means to know the people of Sodom in a sexual way, even though that word is not used that way elsewhere in the Old Testament. Even the Jewish faith never interpreted the story as having anything to do with homosexuality.
As I said in my other comment, we will not agree an anything, so further discussion is pointless and I need the time for my volunteer work. So I bid you farewell.