Comment on Rhaegar and Lyanna by martinacecilia
She was in winterfell when said abduction happened. Only Rhaegar and 2 or 3 guys went, there wasn't an army. If she were abducted what would be there to stop her from making noise, sneaking out or pushing someone off they're horse and making a run for it. She was one of the best equestrians in all of westeros, she was a fighter and probably wouldn't just sit around and let something happen against her will if it was as extreme as the story implies.
except that the fact that she was a fighter and one of the best equestrian of all westeros implies that rhaegar knew about it, and he could have taken preventive measures. say they poisoned her wine and she fell asleep or something like that, say the poison was strong enough for her to be transported for miles and miles without waking up and when she woke up she was tightly bound. And that is just one scenario, I could come up with more. Maybe he blackmailed her with something ('if you don't come with me I'll do something nasty').
The point is that we don't know: skills alone don't allow us to make 100% accurate predictions. Jamie Lannister was one of the best fighters in all westeros and he still lost a hand. Loras Tyrell was amazingly good as well and see what happened to him. Robb Stark too. The Hound. Asoiaf is full of really good fighters and strategists who don't win in the end. There is a possibility that she went along willingly, but there's a possibility as well that she didn't.
How in the hell could he poison her wine? The northern people are extremely loyal, they would never betray the Starks. Even if she was poisoned how would they get her out without anyone noticing? What on earth could he have black mailed her with? There is no evidence that she had secrets that were worth getting kidnapped over. If it were a more general nasty thing what would stop her from telling her father or someone else? I know that good fighters are still badly damaged in GOT but she was in the middle of Winterfell, surrounded by loyal peoples and her family!
You forget that everything of Rhaegar trumps Lyanna.
Man>Woman
Adult>Child
Prince>Lady
She could have realized that as the crown prince, he could have fucked her life and her family's is she didn't do as he asked. Also, we have no context of Rhaegar loving Lyanna, some people said it but it could have been something of denial since they desperately wanted to believe that Rhaegar was a good man and not mad like his father. However, I don't believe it was a kidnapping, I believe Rhaegar was obsessed with his predictions and realized that Elia could not have more children, so he needed a spare woman(the dragon has three heads). So seeing that Visenya was a warrior with pride, he needed someone like her, and since Lyanna was a wolf, she was perfect. So Rhaegar seduced her, and when he thought it was time, he got her to come with him. So I believe that Rhaegar did not love her, he only saw a an innocent girl he could convince to give him what he wanted. Rhaegar wasn't evil however, just blind sighted by his goals and fables.
Man>Woman
Adult>Child
Prince>Lady
She could have realized that as the crown prince, he could have fucked her life and her family's is she didn't do as he asked. Also, we have no context of Rhaegar loving Lyanna, some people said it but it could have been something of denial since they desperately wanted to believe that Rhaegar was a good man and not mad like his father. However, I don't believe it was a kidnapping, I believe Rhaegar was obsessed with his predictions and realized that Elia could not have more children, so he needed a spare woman(the dragon has three heads). So seeing that Visenya was a warrior with pride, he needed someone like her, and since Lyanna was a wolf, she was perfect. So Rhaegar seduced her, and when he thought it was time, he got her to come with him. So I believe that Rhaegar did not love her, he only saw a an innocent girl he could convince to give him what he wanted. Rhaegar wasn't evil however, just blind sighted by his goals and fables.
Lyanna wasn't as innocent and naive as you believe her to be. "Love may be sweet dear Ned but it will not change a mans nature" she wasn't like Sansa who believed in fairy tales. Lyanna understood that not all people are what they seem to be.
Then she probably felt obligated to go since Rhaegar was the crown prince.
Again Lyanna wasn't really like that. She was like Arya and she was wolf blooded. She wasn't just gonna do what ever a person of standing told her to do.
Yes, but if you can remember, Arya almost followed the kingsguard when they spoke about her father. She made her way to them but Syrio stopped her. Doesn't matter if she was wolf-blooded, back then and even now, we are taught to listen to authority figures. Lyanna would be no exception. And if Lyanna detested marrying Robert so much because he would cheat on her, why would she become a hypocrite? She would have been jumping into a MARRIED man's bed, doing the exact same thing she detested. I don't believe she would have gone back on her word, she doesn't seem like that. So there was more to the story than "I love you, you love me, so let's run off!"
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except northern people are not all extremely loyal? the stark get betrayed more than once by northern families? I don't know the first one that comes to mind is Roose Bolton I guess. Lady dustin is someone else who has a grudge against the Starks. And there are a lot of other examples in the north? if NOW in the narrative we can found people pissed off by starks it's not unbeliavable to find people pissed off by starks at Lyanna's time. Starks are not saints who inspire only faith and good thoughts and unrelenting love.
for example, "Lyanna, I just gave this 6 year old girl I found in the kitchen a deadly poison that will kill her in 10 days of horrible pain. the only way to save this kid is to follow me to that tower where I have the antidote or she'll die" Do you think someone like Lyanna would ignore something like that or risk calling it a bluff? There are ways. There is no absolute certainty about this story unless Martin provides more details.
You are making assumptions as to what he did. No one in Westeros sites him as cray, the only one who said that is Robert. If Rhaegar did do that, why wouldn't she tell anyone? All that we know is that she was willful and that he liked books and to sing with his harp. No one who had a major grudge against the Starks at the time was in Winterfell.
no one with a major grudge that.... you know of? of course I'm making assumption, you are as well. the point being: we don't know what happened and you can't be sure lyanna went willingly so EVERYTHING we say about that period are assumptions, me, you, everybody else. And Rhaegar was... mh, really driven about that prophecy thing, we don't know to which lengths he went to make that happen.
But still if he did threaten her or try to black mail her, why on earth would she not tell anyone?