Debatable, hmm? Even the official writers have admitted that the only mutual relationship Raven has had was with the changeling. With Wally, Raven manipulated his mind. Ditto for Dick, whose love for Kori was the dominant pairing for the NTT heyday. With Joe, it was one-sided, since Jericho liked her, but she wasn't ready to commit. Then, there was Eric Forrester, who used wily ways to trick Raven into his evil web of deception.
It is definitely debatable if you look at Raven's whole continuity and the nature of her powers. Her entire ship with Gar is overshadowed by what she did to him during the Darkening. Her responses to Joseph are also not necessarily that simple. I'll do several posts on this. Will put a journal entry on my dA page when they go up.
"Her entire ship with Gar is overshadowed by what she did to him during the Darkening."
I highly doubt that. Out of the two from their time, they're the only ones who can now, logically, be paired off, because Raven is not a Terra type who falls for senior men, nor is she someone to steal from others when in her right state of mind. In fact, the sole reason she broke up the Dick/Kori wedding was due to the fact that she wasn't in her right state of mind and as such, the entire concept of the Dick/Raven idea is flawed, given that Dick/Kori was the established pairing and besides Dick/Barbra, it is going to stay as such, given that the only others couples left from the NTT era would be the never-really-existant BB/Terra (it was a ruse, after all), Dick/Kori (duh), and--to some, given the line in issue #52 of the NTT era where he's being a flirt, as was typical of him, and the fact that she was the one to save him from a fatal gunshot wound, and that he initially called her beautiful when they first met and had never really established their relationship--BB/Rae.
I highly doubt that. Out of the two from their time, they're the only ones who can now, logically, be paired off, because Raven is not a Terra type who falls for senior men, nor is she someone to steal from others when in her right state of mind. In fact, the sole reason she broke up the Dick/Kori wedding was due to the fact that she wasn't in her right state of mind and as such, the entire concept of the Dick/Raven idea is flawed, given that Dick/Kori was the established pairing and besides Dick/Barbra, it is going to stay as such, given that the only others couples left from the NTT era would be the never-really-existant BB/Terra (it was a ruse, after all), Dick/Kori (duh), and--to some, given the line in issue #52 of the NTT era where he's being a flirt, as was typical of him, and the fact that she was the one to save him from a fatal gunshot wound, and that he initially called her beautiful when they first met and had never really established their relationship--BB/Rae.
Well, readers can read her arcs several ways. I wouldn't say you can regard her good and bad forms as separable. There's a counter argument I could point out that Gar and Raven have never had a single conversation on panel that indicates any compatibility or real mutual interests. The only intimate moments they've ever had involve them talking about her problems. And in the time Gar has been shipped with her he's been seriously weakened as a character (failed leader, seen as lovesick, deaged, physically degenerated, obsessed with her in a way that is identical to Wally's behaviour). She has exacerbated that weakness (kissing him to give him 'confidence' - doesn't show any knowledge about his Hollywood past, undermined his leadership when she discovered a traitor on the team and revived Jericho ...). Then there's the bit about the Trigon seeds still being in Gar; and Gar is the key to a portal which Trigon will enter - which will kill Gar. It amazes me that people ignore this stuff. I like Raven a lot, but I don't ignore the whole range of her character and continuity. With respect, b/c you obviously ship them, there are serious problems with considering her to be in a OTP with any character.
The problem is she is an incredible character, but the turning evil arc always repeats - and it always follows a period of optimism. They could have reset Raven after Terror of Trigon and made her an arch-mage. Instead, it's obvious that her ships are catalysts in repeated turning evil arcs. She co-opts male Titans in her struggles. Anyway, I'll expand on my blog.
The problem is she is an incredible character, but the turning evil arc always repeats - and it always follows a period of optimism. They could have reset Raven after Terror of Trigon and made her an arch-mage. Instead, it's obvious that her ships are catalysts in repeated turning evil arcs. She co-opts male Titans in her struggles. Anyway, I'll expand on my blog.
"And in the time Gar has been shipped with her he's been seriously weakened as a character"
As if he wasn't written as such, anyway. I mean, he is the sort whom bad stuff happens to all the time--loss of parents, military-minded adoptive family, being labeled a green-skinned freak by many regular persons, the entire Terra arc, Raven's turning evil, et al--and yet, he is still here. If they had wanted to kill Gar, they could've done so already several times (ex: Slade's fatal gunshot wound that Rae saved him from, Terra's going insane and attacking all in her path, the seeds--as mentioned--killing him when the Sons of Trigon first appeared, the fact that he is one of the few Titans with a close-range attack range (which makes him easier to hit).
"(failed leader,"
Actually, he's done a decent job as leader, despite Rae's problems. In fact, the only recent things seem to look bleak is because that is the extent of his character. He is the happy-go-lucky guy to whom bad stuff consistantly happens to.
"seen as lovesick,"
Ummm...he is in love. Being lovesick is practically a requirement.
"deaged,"
So what? Raven's been deaged constantly. If she was at her real age as a character, she would be years older than practically anyone. But because of her demon genes and constant rebirths from such, she is able to regenerate herself. Seriously, she is caught between heaven--which won't admit her--and hell--which she adamently rejects--which basically strands her on Earth for all time. And as long as those seeds in the changeling persist, he'll receive the same treatment, most likely.
"obsessed with her in a way that is identical to Wally's behaviour)"
Except that Gar is fully in control of his faculties. Unlike Wally, Rae is not manipulating Gar's mind. Out of all the love interest both have had they balance each other out, because they both have inner struggles, they both faced down the Terra situation, they both love each other in a way that doesn't seem like a false love pushed together (i.e. unlike the one-sided Jericho issue, the forced times with Wally and Dick, the clearly evil nature of Eric Forrester, and all the easily forgotten Terra-like replacements [i.e. Jillian], these two complete each other, beyond the whole "keymaster" thing).
As the whole "portal" and "key" thing with Trigon, it is not unlike Ghostbusters [ [link] ], where Gozer uses Tully and Dana Barret as his vessels, before becoming the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man and eventually his fully realized form (who looks like a girl, to be honest). But in the end, the busters defeated him. For the Titans, the same will be said of Trigon, since the good guys always win in the end all scheme of things.
As if he wasn't written as such, anyway. I mean, he is the sort whom bad stuff happens to all the time--loss of parents, military-minded adoptive family, being labeled a green-skinned freak by many regular persons, the entire Terra arc, Raven's turning evil, et al--and yet, he is still here. If they had wanted to kill Gar, they could've done so already several times (ex: Slade's fatal gunshot wound that Rae saved him from, Terra's going insane and attacking all in her path, the seeds--as mentioned--killing him when the Sons of Trigon first appeared, the fact that he is one of the few Titans with a close-range attack range (which makes him easier to hit).
"(failed leader,"
Actually, he's done a decent job as leader, despite Rae's problems. In fact, the only recent things seem to look bleak is because that is the extent of his character. He is the happy-go-lucky guy to whom bad stuff consistantly happens to.
"seen as lovesick,"
Ummm...he is in love. Being lovesick is practically a requirement.
"deaged,"
So what? Raven's been deaged constantly. If she was at her real age as a character, she would be years older than practically anyone. But because of her demon genes and constant rebirths from such, she is able to regenerate herself. Seriously, she is caught between heaven--which won't admit her--and hell--which she adamently rejects--which basically strands her on Earth for all time. And as long as those seeds in the changeling persist, he'll receive the same treatment, most likely.
"obsessed with her in a way that is identical to Wally's behaviour)"
Except that Gar is fully in control of his faculties. Unlike Wally, Rae is not manipulating Gar's mind. Out of all the love interest both have had they balance each other out, because they both have inner struggles, they both faced down the Terra situation, they both love each other in a way that doesn't seem like a false love pushed together (i.e. unlike the one-sided Jericho issue, the forced times with Wally and Dick, the clearly evil nature of Eric Forrester, and all the easily forgotten Terra-like replacements [i.e. Jillian], these two complete each other, beyond the whole "keymaster" thing).
As the whole "portal" and "key" thing with Trigon, it is not unlike Ghostbusters [ [link] ], where Gozer uses Tully and Dana Barret as his vessels, before becoming the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man and eventually his fully realized form (who looks like a girl, to be honest). But in the end, the busters defeated him. For the Titans, the same will be said of Trigon, since the good guys always win in the end all scheme of things.
And to the 'buster analogy, if you've seen the movie, both Tully and Dana survive the ordeal, and so it will be for the changeling and the Mistress of Magic.
Note I said that BB/Terra is among the few left, but that's only due to the show and the fact that the writers can't seem to let well enough alone and see that Terra was just meant as a shock value plot device by even her own creators.
Her responses to Joseph are also not necessarily that simple.
Yes, they are. She was being pursued by Steven, a college classmate, at that point, and she was dealing with daddy issues that would soon turn her into her father's daughter, so she couldn't commit to anyone at the point. Whether it was Jericho or not is actually irrelevant. Even if it were Beast Boy or Robin or anyone else one could think of to pair her with, she would've most likely said "No" to all of them at that point in time.
Her responses to Joseph are also not necessarily that simple.
Yes, they are. She was being pursued by Steven, a college classmate, at that point, and she was dealing with daddy issues that would soon turn her into her father's daughter, so she couldn't commit to anyone at the point. Whether it was Jericho or not is actually irrelevant. Even if it were Beast Boy or Robin or anyone else one could think of to pair her with, she would've most likely said "No" to all of them at that point in time.