Nope, your right. There isn't much free will in the Tsunami deaths in Japan and I won't try to give an explanation on why things like that happen in this world. I could say "Only he knows" or "it
s natures way of keeping the planet in check" but hell if I know. I can only tell you what I think of the situation in that retrospect. I think that sometimes, shit happens to people both good and bad. It's just a part of living in this thing we all call life.
Maybe your right...maybe religion is all just some kind of conspiracy written by someone or maybe the government is trying to do something or shit, maybe the signs are there and people don't wanna see it. Maybe I'm right and there is a God (or Gods..whatever people prefer) and when we all die, we all have to stand before him/her/it/they (whatever you prefer) and all will be known to us. I don't know. Admittedly, I haven't completely read the bible and I do believe that some of it may be over exaggerated. i don't believe that everything was made in exactly seven days, I believe that it was made through the Big Bang theory and that one day was like 1 billion years.
I believe that mankind evolved from apes or whatever into what it is today. As for resurrection and the miracles.....I can see that. I've certainly heard of strange things happening in this day and age, so Mary the Virgin Mother and Jesus being brought back from the dead....yea I can wrap my head around that. Would I flip my shit if I saw it today? Absolutely.
I can also see from your perspective and yeah, what you say has strength in the argument. Yea the Bible doesn't really account for other religions if you read it word for word, but I don't think its a set rule book. I believe that the Bible serves as guide lines. I honestly believe that if you live your life and try to be the best person you can be that you CAN get into heaven. I mean, I know people who are saints on this Earth who are Atheist and they can't get eternal salvation because they don't accept Christ as their Lord and Savior? Doesn't sound right and I hope that I'm right on this one.
If I'm wrong..well hey, I guess that I was wrong then. What I'm saying is that, yes, it seems that God can be powerless and it seems that we can be alone out here in this universe but people don't believe that to be true. Well a lot of people don't anyway. I don't know much about other cultures religions, but from the ones that I've encountered I do see a set moral code ; bee the best person you can be in this world so you can be better in whatever you get when you pass on. I follow this rule, to the best of my ability all the while recognizing that hardships are simply a part of this life. People die, that's what we're here for in the end....life is balance. I believe that for every good there must be a bad and maybe the Tsuanami was God's way of equalizing the good and the bad as I said I don't know.
You can't ave everyone and it's easy to believe and be thankful when everything is going your way. Maybe natural disasters and death and pain are just another way of helping us appreciate the good things of life. The knowledge of death may be what some people need to remind them to live their life right...you could be dead and gone tomorrow y'know.
I do enjoy these conversations; I rarely ever meet people with different points of view and I hope your not getting all "excessively angry" about them. You say that a dualistic point of view can be myopic or short sided. I don't know how many other people you've talked too (I'll assume a lot since you seem pretty passionate and well informed about this subject) but I don't believe that dualism invokes short sight in a "typical" christian (whatever that is.) I think that stubbornness, fear in being wrong, and the fear of the unknown can lead a person to the kind of view your implying. I don't know if you think I'm myopic (I'll assume not since you didn't call me that) but while I do believe in facts and purpose, I also believe in that some things simply can't be explained.
You rely a lot on hard evidence and I commend you for that; I like proof as well. But I also believe that some supernatural things are beyond human explanation. Things that come to mind are possession (yes i believe that things like that are possible even though I've never seen them). You say that a typical Christian has a short sided point of view...well I look at myself as a typical Christian (I know a little, I try to do good and live my life like an average American citizen) and I don't think I'm myopic at all. Yeah, it would suck for me to die and to find out there is no after life, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.....the experience is half the fun after all.
You can say that I really don't know much about the Bible and I'm inclined to agree. I read every night about a chapter) and I'm still in Exodus so...you probably got me beat, but even if I did...I Think that I'd still have faith....something's gotta be better than this world...I hope...if I'm wrong well hey...it was a hell of a ride! I don't know how old you are or what you've experienced on this Earth, but sometimes you gotta just throw away the science.....a little blind faith (AT THE RIGHT TIME) is never supposed to hurt anybody. Believing that Jesus walked on water (maybe he did, maybe he didn't) is ok......the whole Crusades thing wasn't.

That answers questions 1 and 2 of your response, I think.

3. What horrid murders commanded by God? You mean the Crusades, Great Flood? I'm not that far in the Bible yet.

4. If your talking about Adam and Eve....well hey, free will and common sense are two different things. That and I believe that the Garden of Eden was a real place...but I don't think it happened like that...I mean the Bible didn't just fall out the sky written by God. OR maybe Eve was just stupid and didn't believe what God said, if your going word for word by the book (which is more of a Jehova's Witness thing, I believe.) If my dad said "hey..don't eat this it'll kill ya...I wouldn't be near it...let alone eat it.

5. I already covered this topic and if you read my response you know my opinion on it.

6. There's no court of law that would accept me saying "well Ghandi or Malcholm X back in the day said, either so I don't get what your implying. And while I was aware they were written after Jesus' death, I didn't know it was 40 years so thanks.

7. I agree, Jesus never did write anything...he was a prophet and a damned good one.

8. I haven't read all the Gospels so until I do I'll take your word for it, unless you have a chapter or scripture you want me to read?

I hope to hear from you soon and again, I'm enjoying this debate...its rare that I get to engage in a conversation like this. If I miss you, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Pelicanh's avatar
Yea...I majored in Theology in college and I'm 61 years old....so...I've seen a lot. By " horrid murders"... I mean if you count all the people god directly commanded to be murdered. Like when the Israelites went into their " holy land"... God told them to kill every living thing! God directly commanded the killing of over a million people if you count them. That's fucked up.
My implication is that no one really knows what Jesus said because it was years later before any of it was written down.
All of this is moot anyway since I think the Bible is no more valid as a religious script than the Iliad and the Odyssey.
What books were canonized and what books were left out of the bible was also a subjective choice.
You seem to have some fairly liberal viewpoints for someone who claims to be Christian...for this I commend you...but I'm not so sure some of what you think will go over well in church.
Good luck and have good holidays
Lol...it's all good. I haven't been to Church in years anyway. Thanks for the discussion. If you ever have another topic you want to discuss my forum is always open.

BTW I'm 22 and have been in the military for 4 years and am just starting college so I've still got a lot to learn.

Have a Great New Year!
Pelicanh's avatar
we're all works in progress! Good luck!