And, because there's a greater than 0 percent chance I'll be brought up as an example as one of "Humon's crazy fans", I'm not really a huge fan of Humon's -- I do like her artwork, and find it amusing, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get my hands on it. But I'm tired of all of this targeting done by self-righteous adolescents through sites like Dramatica, 4chan, or wherever else.
You might have problems with it. Fine. But it's the same routine I see all the time -- people go on about how terrible it is, how the artist is a RACIST, a SEXIST, a TERRIBLE PERSON, yadda yadda, goes on and on about it well into extremes, and shouts down anyone that tries to defend them (at least on the home turf, such as in the thread you come from).
You defend someone drawing weird fetishes? You must be into weird fetishes as well! No one can support free expression without being a sick perverted nasty person.
It's sickening. It's just a way the internet divides itself, in a world already filled with divisiveness.
But meh. It's ultimately small potatoes. There's larger issues in the world. I wish the energy you people invest in this could be put towards, say, helping the people in Syria.
I was, however, diagnosed with ADHD. I might have PTSD after a car crash that nearly killed me a year ago, but I haven't gone in for treatment yet. I somehow don't think that's applicable here, though.
Would you like my medical records, or do you want to keep guessing about the state of my mental and social health?
So it should be okay for her to draw sexist and racist things because there are bigger fish to fry ? It's okay guys, Humon is just teaching us Hammurabi's Law! A brown eye for a brown eye.
Yeah, if I went with what people like you said, I'd believe everyone was sexist and racist. Stephen King, Stephen Hawking, Einstein, Darwin, blah blah blah. It doesn't matter what else they do or the context they do it in, they're all terrible people and we should gather in a big hate group going on and on and on about how they're terrible people. It leads to the same ignorance and the same divisiveness every time it's practiced.
kind of sounds like you're making an argument akin to 'Hitler loved animals, so we can overlook the whole racism and genocide thing'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're saying because good people can have flaws (and the reverse as to my example), that we should ignore them or they balance out?
Oh yeah. All of these people are like Hitler. I mean, we talk about the millions of blacks Humon has sent to the ovens. Or King, or Hawking, or all the rest of them.
Actually, you know what? I do make that argument. Example: Malcolm X. He did quite a bit for the Civil Rights movement, and he started off very racist, refusing to let other whites join in. Of course, he changed his mind after he went to Mecca, so you could say that maybe that doesn't count, but in the end, I would say the good he did countered his earlier racism.
Gandhi was also racist as hell, in his earlier days. I don't think most people would think of him as Hitler (but many would claim he wasn't perfect, but is anyone?)
I just don't agree that because someone is 'good' that their flaws can be overlooked. If she doesn't realize that what she's doing is being interpreted by quite a few people as racist, she still doesn't get a 'pass' because she's 'a good person'. I'm not saying she should be labelled as such, or that this will define her or that she's a 'bad person', but I think this action is bad and I think she should know.
Except unlike those people, Humon uses a good deal of sexual and race related elements in all her stories. Her entire body of work is based on such things. You are now comparing apple to oranges for the sake of defending her.
Let me ask you something: Is it okay to rape or sexually abuse a person after being TOLD they are an evil rapist. No actual images or back story just an after the fact comment.
Well, I would say that I have a good deal of experience under my belt, for actual cases of racism and sexism as well as not. I'm a history major, and I know the history of racism in the US and the world. I'm involved in quite a few groups that actively try to make the world a better place.
Am I in a good place to judge a harmless comic? Well, maybe you're right, maybe I'm not. But what is the actual goal of yours here -- to get Humon to stop drawing stuff you don't like?
Oh yeah? Experiences, hm. I was raped. I know the feelings that go into that kind of experience, and I still don't feel that rape and sexual assault deserve the same in return. So please, use your experiences with the history of racism and sexism, to justify her intentions. My actual goal isn't anything like that. In fact, I don't have one in relation to Humon's art. I just feel what she writes about (especially this softcore fantasy she is doing) is getting to be a tad ridiculous. Every story she does is sexual and now she is feeding people lies like it's okay because he is a bad guy? And how can you judge what is harmless, you must know the wills of everyone on Earth.
If you know someone that's harmed, bring them forward, please. You make the claim of harm, bring up evidence, the burden of proof is on you.
You were raped. I know a lot of people that were raped, including my closest friends. I also know a lot of people that use the fact they were raped like a club to attack others -- and yet others willing to lie about it to achieve their own ends.
that only works for things that are overt, obvious and on the surface. Just because you're not using slurs, doesn't mean that you're not contributing to the idea that stereotypes and non-consensual sexual encounters are okay. You permit them by indulging them, and by indulging them you fail to condemn them. If no one speaks up and says 'hey, that's not cool', then it eventually becomes permissible.
it doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation. In this world, in our respective societies we have 'norms' which change and evolve over time. When something goes beyond these, people tend to speak up. There is no perfect number, but we can speak out against things like violence, racism, etc. which every person has a different tolerance for and try to get closer to that acceptable level. I think people have already said why they think Humon's depiction of certain things goes beyond those acceptable levels.
Well, I'd argue that the "norms" in society are way askew, especially in the US, but fair enough. I agree with you.
I don't agree that Humon is an acceptable target, and I don't agree that hating the target is the way to go (which is less demonstrated in response to this thread, which is why it may seem I'm going over the top).
I don't think she should be 'targeted' and hated on for the heck of it, and I don't know that anyone right here right now is doing that. If she's doing something that some people feel is harmful, she should deal with a proportional and reasonable backlash from that.
How can you view who it's harming? You don't know how other people react to it. People who use it as a club or lie are just as wrong. But now no one can see my comment, so it makes me look like a chump. And I am sorry it happened to me and others too. It's a terrible thing, fiction or not.
You know, I do and I don't. I do when someone is actually harmed -- someone goes into a catatonic state from viewing the comic, suffers flashbacks, or whatever else -- but almost anything can cause that. Some people suffer flashbacks whenever they see anything that reminds them of a traumatic experience, even the smell of oranges can set some off, etc.
And I don't, because "this revolts me" isn't mental harm, and if you were to take out everything because it might remind someone of traumatic experiences, then we'd have to remove everything, for the comment above.
Unless you mean something else? What kind of "mental harm" are we talking about, specifically?
Let's say you don't know Humon's work and you read the story she has going now. She says men are into Femdom ( and some are) but she is giving us images of a person whose only emotions are terrified and less terrified. This doesn't read as the guy likes like she wants people to think. There are people that have actually gone through what the guy in her story is going through, but in real life. I mean he is being carted all over who knows where ( we can't tell because of the lack of backgrounds), being abused and we are suppose to feel better about it because he raped other people. Which is pretty terrible on it's own.
I really do think we'll just continue to disagree about this. I don't agree that we can get rid of all fetishes and all violence from all forms of artwork and come out as a better society. I'm just going to keep it to that, since I am finding this argument exhausting.
a bad guy, but depicted with the most charisma and charm and comes out on top in every strip I've seen. All his actions are glorified, and any vilification is said off hand...saying he's a bad guy is just a cover for this kind of dark fantasy...
well, considering that you have this kind of experience, do you really think there is no correlation between the depictions of certain groups in works of fiction and how they are treated in real life? Consider the backlash these days against things like 'blackface art' and the stereotypical depictions of various races and groups in old cartoons. Works of fiction, but they were a reflection of the society of the time and by being 'acceptable', they propagated those stereotypes.
Yes, with deliberately malicious material. Her material is not deliberately malicious. She is not calling men demons, she is not calling Jews or blacks demons, she's not portraying them as subhuman.
There's two black characters in one comic that you all feel uncomfortable with, even though their race might as well have little to nothing to do with it. If she made them white, you'd have no problems with their behavior (outside of going on and on about she draws yaoi stuff and that's badwrong, especially since you don't like it personally).
not all of that material was malicious. Racism can be very subtle. Sometimes people writing those old cartoons thought they were making a harmless joke and didn't 'hate' the subject, just went along with what was acceptable at the time.
You don't have to be overt to be hurtful. Sometimes the most subtle things are the worst, because they are unseen by even the person committing the action.
I don't think she's a monster, I don't even think she's a racist, per se, I don't know. But the comics I've seen made me wonder if what she's doing isn't harmful despite her intentions...and I actually take more issue with the denial that she might be wrong (even a little) than with her actions themselves.
But that leads to demon-think. (I make a more in-depth argument here: [link])
That's the problem with targeting media to a massive degree. On some levels, it works, but on others, you get the woman in there going on about how Joss Whedon is a misogynist that likes rape. Because you're intently looking at the subject matter for what you can possibly define as racist, sexist, etc., and then you start to hate the person that designs that media. And like demon-think logic, anything they say at that point can be discounted out of hand; naturally, they're going to lie, they're going to be horrible people, and nothing they say can be trusted.
It leads to spiral thought process that does more harm than good. At least that's my view.
Yes, you DO have a point, but I'm mostly disgusted at Dramatica's handling of it; they did just what I described, making Humon out to be a horrible monster that's worthy of disgust and hatred, or at least disgust and pity.
the argument backfires on you when you make a demon of everyone here, assuming that they have this kind of mindset. I for one, do not. I didn't set out to feel anything in particular from Humon's work. In fact, the first time I even heard her name was recently when someone linked a comic about relationships. It was kind of cute, I more or less agreed, but either way, it didn't concern me. The more comics of hers I encountered, especially the ones with reoccurring characters, the more some underlying themes started to leave a bad taste in my mouth...I wouldn't even bother commenting, but it's the denial that there might be something not-okay about her subject matter/depiction of certain groups which prompted me to speak up.
Well, I didn't say you did, and it's quite obvious you don't. You are right that it can backfire, but almost all of my anger has, and still is, towards the Dramatica thread that I first saw this in -- and the original poster I was responding to came from there, stating within the thread he was wanting to see Humon's response, so they could mock her on that thread.
That has been the main reason I've been so aggressive in this, and I will admit I did start generalizing. I do apologize for that, in the least.
ahh the original poster came from that, well I don't know them, but that could be the case and I can see how that would feel like an attack. I admit to knowing a couple of other people in this thread and I know that they're not involved in such groups, just disagree with what's going on.
It's okay I love agreeing to disagree hahahah and it can be tough to deal with a lot of online opinions coming at you at once.
I agree that some people take things too far and for reasons that I don't agree with. I don't agree with targeting and any time I read a site like that, I read it with quite a large grain of salt. That being said, you do have to be careful and argue against people based on what they say and not based on who they associate with.
on the one hand, I actually do agree with that, but in the same breadth you could apply that to anyone who defends Humon, and Humon herself for drawing comics in the first place. What we choose to do in our free time is pretty hard to judge, since all free time could pretty much be put to better use.
I think it's more the organizing into groups to find someone people are disgusted with or find worthy of mockery/harassment, and encouraging (or at least abetting) people to go out and target them in various ways. The same way Encyclopedia Dramatica, in general, encourages the idea of harassing people for the lulz, and digging up anything that's amusing to look at involving them.
I mean, for the worst case of it, look at the Chris Chan wiki: [link]
Wherein they systematically bully someone, harass him, target him, "troll" him offline, etc.
It's the level of organization in orchestrating these things that can be put to better use, I think.
I think that would be true if I felt it was more than a lot of people doing things in their downtime. Sometimes I agree with some of the things that come out of/are said by people from ED, sometimes I don't. It might be a collective, but it's made up of individuals and I think that's why they go there. If it was any more organized or directed to something productive, I think it would fall apart, because people like how loose it is.
(as for Chris-chan, from what I know of him...he's a hard case to sympathize with, though I am of the variety who thinks if it happens online it should stay online).
Maybe that's true. Change.org is doing a lot with people's downtime though; while signing petitions isn't tremendously effective, it's starting to accomplish quite a few things, including getting politicians to actually have a better understanding of what their constituency believes (I think that a lot of people today, especially in the US, live in their own little bubble with their own beliefs, and only recently are those bubbles becoming popped -- which can lead to good things, or lead to resentment).
It's not much, but it's something, certainly a step in the right direction IMO.
Chris does quite a few bad things, sure. I've done damn stupid things when I was young. I also know that, when you are systematically bullied all of your life, you don't tend to do anything to make yourself look better, because you become resentful of others and the world in general; it's why I dropped out of high school, and I only got my GED when I was able to focus on my studies without having to deal with the high school atmosphere.
I think that bullying, especially to that level, only makes it worse on a person, especially when it's done for so long.
I commend anything like that which can effect a positive change, but I prefer to be more direct. (and for the record, I'm Canadian).
From what I know of Chris-chan, I don't think he was bullied all his life. It seems like his reactions to mild teasing on the internet (as anyone who posts things, especially artwork is prone to encounter) is what started to draw attention to him...and I think he was quite old when this happened, in his mid-late 20's...but his autism or whatever it is played a role in his child-like reactions...I admit to laughing at some of the things I've seen which he said/did, but I wouldn't go out of my way to say anything to him.
In any case, congratulations on your GED and best of luck in the future. I had a fairly strong constitution growing up, so whatever bullying I experienced I can put behind me, but I know others weren't so lucky.
Well, thanks for that. I'm soon to graduate with a bachelor's in history, and I'm thinking of moving on to get a masters. So I think I'm somewhat of a success story -- it's weird, because it really doesn't feel like it (no idea what I'm going to do with my life in the long run right now).
And I wasn't suggesting you were in the US, in case there was confusion, but just that I think in the US, there's a lot of groups that live in their own little bubble and have their own ideas as to how the world works (which is propagated by our politics by such language as "real America" and the like). The online world is starting to work like that too -- there was an interesting video that I saw (I can't find it now) about how we're organizing our own little groups, and search engines are catering to that, finding the search terms that fit our own philosophical, political, cultural ideas, beliefs, and interests. In short, we're organizing in little groups -- and as Cracked put it in one article, we're less and less tolerant of people that don't agree with us or act the way we feel is "correct", because it's easier and easier to find people that are more like us, leading to surprisingly more division than not.
As for the whole Chris-chan thing, I think that it's a negative environment that shouldn't be encouraged, and it's becoming more and more prevalent overall (4chan, Dramatica, Chris-chan, etc.), is the summary of my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. In fact, it's quite possible (even probable) that it only seems more prevalent to me because I'm more aware of it now than I was in the past.
I'm not sure if Chris-chan was actually diagnosed with autism, but I tend to always have sympathy for the underdog, and I know that if he does have it, people with autism tend to go through quite a bit of abuse (an extreme... I hope extreme... example here: [link] And here: [link])
But instead of spreading awareness, this is targeting someone to mock him, online and in person, for lack of social development. I just can't see it as anything else but causing far more harm than good.
ooh history. Interesting. I've got a BA in laws, hoping to get into law school for 2013.
I was just trying to clear up in case you thought so. The partitioning of the internet does not surprise me, but I think it's mostly the extremes on either end of anything who aren't tolerant. I meet lots of tolerant people online (I'd consider you one, unless you suddenly blurt out a string of curse words and death threats containing no substance, which seems unlikely).
I'd heard about at least the second of those incidents. In Chris-chan's case, my sympathy is quite little because I've seen some of his own actions and words, but I think there are a lot of people who don't deserve the flack they get online, and certainly not anything that happens offline.
Well, I guess you could call me an extremist in a way. Even utopian. Even it'll take centuries, I want us to get to this point: [link]
Really, now that I think about it, I guess I can't really criticize people for suggesting Humon is introducing subtle elements of racism into her works. Even though I'm not sure I agree with the overall assessment, racism is one thing I do want to end. I just think the strategy is too much in the opposite direction, but not what we see in this thread (even if the OP is really not going to be very convincing either way, but meh).
I tend to go with what Dostoevsky wrote about Utopia being something we might strive for, but ultimately hate and some will try to destroy because we're builders by nature and if everything's perfect, we won't have anything to build...but that's neither here nor there lol.
Yeah, I think it's a subtle thing. I don't think she is what I would consider a 'racist' and I doubt she's a bad person. People getting personal about it or being over the top with their criticisms...eh..I don't agree with. I think if she didn't have the distribution that she does with her works, and if dissent against her works was handled with more of a 'you might be right, but I think I'll continue any ways' I think this wouldn't be happening.
Well, I could see Dostoevsky's point, but I'd say that even if we did go for a resource based economy and it worked, there'd be a lot more to strive for -- the stars, mainly. We could afford to look in long term and not short. We also would have the resources more to organize games, events, competitions, etc., free of violence.
I think it's possible. It'll just take a while to get to the point of.
If we had everything in the Venus Project, we could still organize into competitive groups (not something Fresco would be for, I think... not sure, but this is more idea), and artificially create competition. Who will be the first to come up with something new to send to Mars?
Hell, one of the things that made me so interested in NASA as a kid was a space camp, where everyone would work in their own little groups to simulate a shuttle launch. It was extremely fun, in its own way, and did teach a level of teamwork. You would alternate from working in engineering to going to mission control -- tons of fun for a kid.
Hell, even today, we're finding ways to turn games into useful science:
Sta.sh
You might have problems with it. Fine. But it's the same routine I see all the time -- people go on about how terrible it is, how the artist is a RACIST, a SEXIST, a TERRIBLE PERSON, yadda yadda, goes on and on about it well into extremes, and shouts down anyone that tries to defend them (at least on the home turf, such as in the thread you come from).
You defend someone drawing weird fetishes? You must be into weird fetishes as well! No one can support free expression without being a sick perverted nasty person.
It's sickening. It's just a way the internet divides itself, in a world already filled with divisiveness.
But meh. It's ultimately small potatoes. There's larger issues in the world. I wish the energy you people invest in this could be put towards, say, helping the people in Syria.
Devious Comments
Would you like my medical records, or do you want to keep guessing about the state of my mental and social health?
It's okay guys, Humon is just teaching us Hammurabi's Law! A brown eye for a brown eye.
Actually, you know what? I do make that argument. Example: Malcolm X. He did quite a bit for the Civil Rights movement, and he started off very racist, refusing to let other whites join in. Of course, he changed his mind after he went to Mecca, so you could say that maybe that doesn't count, but in the end, I would say the good he did countered his earlier racism.
Gandhi was also racist as hell, in his earlier days. I don't think most people would think of him as Hitler (but many would claim he wasn't perfect, but is anyone?)
Here, let me ask you something:
1) Is she advocating actual hatred against anyone? Yes/no.
2) Has she harmed anyone, directly or indirectly? Yes/no.
Let me ask you something:
Is it okay to rape or sexually abuse a person after being TOLD they are an evil rapist. No actual images or back story just an after the fact comment.
Well, I would say that I have a good deal of experience under my belt, for actual cases of racism and sexism as well as not. I'm a history major, and I know the history of racism in the US and the world. I'm involved in quite a few groups that actively try to make the world a better place.
Am I in a good place to judge a harmless comic? Well, maybe you're right, maybe I'm not. But what is the actual goal of yours here -- to get Humon to stop drawing stuff you don't like?
I was raped. I know the feelings that go into that kind of experience, and I still don't feel that rape and sexual assault deserve the same in return. So please, use your experiences with the history of racism and sexism, to justify her intentions.
My actual goal isn't anything like that. In fact, I don't have one in relation to Humon's art. I just feel what she writes about (especially this softcore fantasy she is doing) is getting to be a tad ridiculous. Every story she does is sexual and now she is feeding people lies like it's okay because he is a bad guy? And how can you judge what is harmless, you must know the wills of everyone on Earth.
If you know someone that's harmed, bring them forward, please. You make the claim of harm, bring up evidence, the burden of proof is on you.
You were raped. I know a lot of people that were raped, including my closest friends. I also know a lot of people that use the fact they were raped like a club to attack others -- and yet others willing to lie about it to achieve their own ends.
I'm sorry about what happened to you, regardless.
I don't agree that Humon is an acceptable target, and I don't agree that hating the target is the way to go (which is less demonstrated in response to this thread, which is why it may seem I'm going over the top).
People who use it as a club or lie are just as wrong. But now no one can see my comment, so it makes me look like a chump.
And I am sorry it happened to me and others too. It's a terrible thing, fiction or not.
And I don't, because "this revolts me" isn't mental harm, and if you were to take out everything because it might remind someone of traumatic experiences, then we'd have to remove everything, for the comment above.
Unless you mean something else? What kind of "mental harm" are we talking about, specifically?
She says men are into Femdom ( and some are) but she is giving us images of a person whose only emotions are terrified and less terrified. This doesn't read as the guy likes like she wants people to think. There are people that have actually gone through what the guy in her story is going through, but in real life. I mean he is being carted all over who knows where ( we can't tell because of the lack of backgrounds), being abused and we are suppose to feel better about it because he raped other people. Which is pretty terrible on it's own.
There's two black characters in one comic that you all feel uncomfortable with, even though their race might as well have little to nothing to do with it. If she made them white, you'd have no problems with their behavior (outside of going on and on about she draws yaoi stuff and that's badwrong, especially since you don't like it personally).
You don't have to be overt to be hurtful. Sometimes the most subtle things are the worst, because they are unseen by even the person committing the action.
I don't think she's a monster, I don't even think she's a racist, per se, I don't know. But the comics I've seen made me wonder if what she's doing isn't harmful despite her intentions...and I actually take more issue with the denial that she might be wrong (even a little) than with her actions themselves.
That's the problem with targeting media to a massive degree. On some levels, it works, but on others, you get the woman in there going on about how Joss Whedon is a misogynist that likes rape. Because you're intently looking at the subject matter for what you can possibly define as racist, sexist, etc., and then you start to hate the person that designs that media. And like demon-think logic, anything they say at that point can be discounted out of hand; naturally, they're going to lie, they're going to be horrible people, and nothing they say can be trusted.
It leads to spiral thought process that does more harm than good. At least that's my view.
Yes, you DO have a point, but I'm mostly disgusted at Dramatica's handling of it; they did just what I described, making Humon out to be a horrible monster that's worthy of disgust and hatred, or at least disgust and pity.
That has been the main reason I've been so aggressive in this, and I will admit I did start generalizing. I do apologize for that, in the least.
It's okay
I still wish some of this youthful energy could go more towards people that really need it.
I mean, for the worst case of it, look at the Chris Chan wiki: [link]
Wherein they systematically bully someone, harass him, target him, "troll" him offline, etc.
It's the level of organization in orchestrating these things that can be put to better use, I think.
(as for Chris-chan, from what I know of him...he's a hard case to sympathize with, though I am of the variety who thinks if it happens online it should stay online).
It's not much, but it's something, certainly a step in the right direction IMO.
Chris does quite a few bad things, sure. I've done damn stupid things when I was young. I also know that, when you are systematically bullied all of your life, you don't tend to do anything to make yourself look better, because you become resentful of others and the world in general; it's why I dropped out of high school, and I only got my GED when I was able to focus on my studies without having to deal with the high school atmosphere.
I think that bullying, especially to that level, only makes it worse on a person, especially when it's done for so long.
From what I know of Chris-chan, I don't think he was bullied all his life. It seems like his reactions to mild teasing on the internet (as anyone who posts things, especially artwork is prone to encounter) is what started to draw attention to him...and I think he was quite old when this happened, in his mid-late 20's...but his autism or whatever it is played a role in his child-like reactions...I admit to laughing at some of the things I've seen which he said/did, but I wouldn't go out of my way to say anything to him.
In any case, congratulations on your GED and best of luck in the future. I had a fairly strong constitution growing up, so whatever bullying I experienced I can put behind me, but I know others weren't so lucky.
And I wasn't suggesting you were in the US, in case there was confusion, but just that I think in the US, there's a lot of groups that live in their own little bubble and have their own ideas as to how the world works (which is propagated by our politics by such language as "real America" and the like). The online world is starting to work like that too -- there was an interesting video that I saw (I can't find it now) about how we're organizing our own little groups, and search engines are catering to that, finding the search terms that fit our own philosophical, political, cultural ideas, beliefs, and interests. In short, we're organizing in little groups -- and as Cracked put it in one article, we're less and less tolerant of people that don't agree with us or act the way we feel is "correct", because it's easier and easier to find people that are more like us, leading to surprisingly more division than not.
As for the whole Chris-chan thing, I think that it's a negative environment that shouldn't be encouraged, and it's becoming more and more prevalent overall (4chan, Dramatica, Chris-chan, etc.), is the summary of my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. In fact, it's quite possible (even probable) that it only seems more prevalent to me because I'm more aware of it now than I was in the past.
I'm not sure if Chris-chan was actually diagnosed with autism, but I tend to always have sympathy for the underdog, and I know that if he does have it, people with autism tend to go through quite a bit of abuse (an extreme... I hope extreme... example here: [link] And here: [link])
But instead of spreading awareness, this is targeting someone to mock him, online and in person, for lack of social development. I just can't see it as anything else but causing far more harm than good.
I was just trying to clear up in case you thought so. The partitioning of the internet does not surprise me, but I think it's mostly the extremes on either end of anything who aren't tolerant. I meet lots of tolerant people online (I'd consider you one, unless you suddenly blurt out a string of curse words and death threats containing no substance, which seems unlikely).
I'd heard about at least the second of those incidents. In Chris-chan's case, my sympathy is quite little because I've seen some of his own actions and words, but I think there are a lot of people who don't deserve the flack they get online, and certainly not anything that happens offline.
Really, now that I think about it, I guess I can't really criticize people for suggesting Humon is introducing subtle elements of racism into her works. Even though I'm not sure I agree with the overall assessment, racism is one thing I do want to end. I just think the strategy is too much in the opposite direction, but not what we see in this thread (even if the OP is really not going to be very convincing either way, but meh).
Yeah, I think it's a subtle thing. I don't think she is what I would consider a 'racist' and I doubt she's a bad person. People getting personal about it or being over the top with their criticisms...eh..I don't agree with. I think if she didn't have the distribution that she does with her works, and if dissent against her works was handled with more of a 'you might be right, but I think I'll continue any ways' I think this wouldn't be happening.
I think it's possible. It'll just take a while to get to the point of.
Hell, one of the things that made me so interested in NASA as a kid was a space camp, where everyone would work in their own little groups to simulate a shuttle launch. It was extremely fun, in its own way, and did teach a level of teamwork. You would alternate from working in engineering to going to mission control -- tons of fun for a kid.
Hell, even today, we're finding ways to turn games into useful science:
[link]
There's another example, I forget the name, but it also involves protein folding I think.