Comment on now by davespertine
time is a rational thing
in an irrational sense it doesn't exist
only the rational processing of the awareness of change by our senses stands in the way of this
any concepts on time are not conceived by the rational mind
rational processes simply recognise the relevance of such ideas
Columbus or whoever may have discovered America
but that doesn't mean that it was not discovered previously by someone else
this ownership of things is incentivized because without it people simply wouldn't bother
this probably means that in the scheme of things and by consensus it really isn't important at all
knowledge is the hoardings of the compulsive
Ah, thinking of the dog, it's just came to my mind that the 'naturally embodied' time is circular - and the linear time idea was, in fact, a hard and great human invention.
we are aware of cyclic patterns, like days and nights,
seasons make us aware of years
nature will show us the signs of the seasons
but it is not aware of time
it simply responds to the circumstances when they change
we too, respond to changes
really time has no beginning and no end
we could say that it starts from now and goes forwards into the future or backwards into the past
now is time zero
now is the point at which time doesn't exist
Mmmm wait a moment.
Is my dog rational?
She lives in time more than I do.
She feels rhythm in her body and she is very exact about the feeding or walking hour.
The idea of time is rational as any idea.
But it is based on some simple natural things.
Where do you go from night and day, sleep and hunger?
The rhythm of all these gave the humans the idea of time.
And then, when the thought was developed, the idea that time does not exist appeared.
The idea that time does not exist is more rational than the idea of time.
(the guy shot himself to get rid of all those natural things at once)
(he badly wanted to kill time and become eternal)
Is my dog rational?
She lives in time more than I do.
She feels rhythm in her body and she is very exact about the feeding or walking hour.
The idea of time is rational as any idea.
But it is based on some simple natural things.
Where do you go from night and day, sleep and hunger?
The rhythm of all these gave the humans the idea of time.
And then, when the thought was developed, the idea that time does not exist appeared.
The idea that time does not exist is more rational than the idea of time.
(the guy shot himself to get rid of all those natural things at once)
(he badly wanted to kill time and become eternal)
the feeling that time does not exist is not entirely rational
some might say it is irrational
you dog is influenced by hunger and by needs
i wonder do you impose your routine on her
or does she impose her routine on you?
i would say the routine of meal times is something imposed on the modern world by the concept of work
work provides an abundance of food so people with money can eat at the same time each day
work also dictates what time a person should eat, or feed their dog, or take their dog for a walk
in times when we had to hunt for food or perhaps lead nomadic lives routines relating to eating and sleeping would be very different largely because of the unpredictable circumstances of that way of life.
we live predictable lives ruled by time, but the strict times which we live by are purely an invention, hours minutes and seconds do not exist 
Ah!
So, it's: Let's never be slaves to our own routine!
I totally agree.
I will just add some details I am quite sure about (as for the existence of time, I have the idea that it does not exist at a standing-alone parameter, but I am not quite sure I am right).
Well, I am sure that
1. Days, minutes, seconds exist as pounds or kilometres - they are conventional! You can use pounds or kilograms to measure weight, but the weight, measured differently, still exists. I am not sure that time exists just as weight exists. But I am not sure that time does not exist. 2. My dog follows my schedule, but she is much more exact in it than I am. I use the clock, and my dog doesn't: she just has it in herself. So, she has a natural ability to feel time.
3. Everything you said is not irrational: what's more, it's a friut of a highly developed culture of thinking. You may have some irrational things to talk about, but the concept of inexistence of time, just to take one of them, requires a lot of things to be created and known before (the concept of time for example, and the concept of inexistence).
It's all culture, nothing to do. And it's culture that lets us dream of a bit of irrationality as of something free and beautiful. And being cultured we can really afford it.
So, it's: Let's never be slaves to our own routine!
I totally agree.
I will just add some details I am quite sure about (as for the existence of time, I have the idea that it does not exist at a standing-alone parameter, but I am not quite sure I am right).
Well, I am sure that
1. Days, minutes, seconds exist as pounds or kilometres - they are conventional! You can use pounds or kilograms to measure weight, but the weight, measured differently, still exists. I am not sure that time exists just as weight exists. But I am not sure that time does not exist. 2. My dog follows my schedule, but she is much more exact in it than I am. I use the clock, and my dog doesn't: she just has it in herself. So, she has a natural ability to feel time.
3. Everything you said is not irrational: what's more, it's a friut of a highly developed culture of thinking. You may have some irrational things to talk about, but the concept of inexistence of time, just to take one of them, requires a lot of things to be created and known before (the concept of time for example, and the concept of inexistence).
It's all culture, nothing to do. And it's culture that lets us dream of a bit of irrationality as of something free and beautiful. And being cultured we can really afford it.
days are different
we know that it gets light in the morning and gets dark in the evening
mid-day is when the sun is directly overhead
but.... people talk of 12 o'clock as mid-day
perhaps, if we were more in tune with the planet and aware of it's movements, then our internal clock would be more developed
we over-ride our clock with the imposed conformity of time
People who are dominated by time will never celebrate (well only rarely on very special occasions) they have to stick to their routine and they will complain with anything that intrudes on that
Time is irregular, only rhythm has a regular pattern and even that changes. We need to use time and rhythm appropriately. Not just simplify it for the convenience of control.
We used to be cultured,
but now uniformity is taking over and culture will be lost to the standardisation of character.
Culture has always been something that the wealthy have borrowed from the poor. But globally the poor will give up their culture in exchange for work and the standardisation of their time.
we know that it gets light in the morning and gets dark in the evening
mid-day is when the sun is directly overhead
but.... people talk of 12 o'clock as mid-day
perhaps, if we were more in tune with the planet and aware of it's movements, then our internal clock would be more developed
we over-ride our clock with the imposed conformity of time
People who are dominated by time will never celebrate (well only rarely on very special occasions) they have to stick to their routine and they will complain with anything that intrudes on that
Time is irregular, only rhythm has a regular pattern and even that changes. We need to use time and rhythm appropriately. Not just simplify it for the convenience of control.
We used to be cultured,
but now uniformity is taking over and culture will be lost to the standardisation of character.
Culture has always been something that the wealthy have borrowed from the poor. But globally the poor will give up their culture in exchange for work and the standardisation of their time.
Ah, I globally agree.
But look at the Bible: it maybe has the first ever idea of the linear time.
And you see that it gives the rhythm: the seven-day week.
But it gives the celebrations, too!
It even fixes the celebrations into the law: work 6 days and celebrate the 7th.
This is another great human discovery, together with the linear time concept.
It's the change of work time and leasure time that lets human personality to be developed.
I mean, to be developed from nature.
And then let's try to use the wonders of the progress and fight its beasts.
Because every wonder come together with a beast to fight off.
But look at the Bible: it maybe has the first ever idea of the linear time.
And you see that it gives the rhythm: the seven-day week.
But it gives the celebrations, too!
It even fixes the celebrations into the law: work 6 days and celebrate the 7th.
This is another great human discovery, together with the linear time concept.
It's the change of work time and leasure time that lets human personality to be developed.
I mean, to be developed from nature.
And then let's try to use the wonders of the progress and fight its beasts.
Because every wonder come together with a beast to fight off.
we humans are good at illusions
first we create the illusion of time
then we make it appear that the beast within us doesn't exist
only the victim sees the beast
i bet that nature recognises the beast in humans
humans never conquered the beast
they contained it, controlled it
made it perform tricks
but they will never kill it off completely
they will fight to preserve it
An invention, not an illusion.
Pounds and miles are an invention.
Quite useful, by the way.
Pounds and miles are an invention.
Quite useful, by the way.
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