Comment on Ursa Minor by PoesDaughter
Oh man, that is absolutely awesome, being able to take all those different cultures and media and find the common elements...and then draw that conclusion. And yeah, I see the change thing (thank you anthro course 
).
).So is an author only a trickster when trying to effect change, or is even the act of telling a good story enough?
It's been fun but challenging to weave all that together. 
I think it's both. I think good writers want their work to accomplish something, so they set out to write with purpose. I don't mean in a didactic way, necessarily, even though tricksters do tend to tell morality tales.
But I also think that when you're doing a good job as a writer, you're naturally stepping into the role of a trickster. You're deliberately outwitting your audience, mentally challenging them so that they stay invested in your words. You play tricks on them; if you know your business, you're not resorting to smoke and mirrors. You have genuinely clever tricks up your sleeve to keep them paying attention to you.
You're a situation-inverter, a mad genius, even a shapeshifter. You actively step into alternate personas in order to create meaningful characters. You are the creator and destroyer of worlds.
Of course, a lot of this happens accidentally, particularly with young writers. But my writing mentor used to say that you should do nothing by accident; accidental success is just shooting from the hip and getting lucky. What separates the wheat from the chaff is being deliberate and knowing why and what you're doing.
To me, that's how you know a good writer from a bad, and that's why I argue that you've got to consciously step into that trickster role.
I think it's both. I think good writers want their work to accomplish something, so they set out to write with purpose. I don't mean in a didactic way, necessarily, even though tricksters do tend to tell morality tales.
But I also think that when you're doing a good job as a writer, you're naturally stepping into the role of a trickster. You're deliberately outwitting your audience, mentally challenging them so that they stay invested in your words. You play tricks on them; if you know your business, you're not resorting to smoke and mirrors. You have genuinely clever tricks up your sleeve to keep them paying attention to you.
You're a situation-inverter, a mad genius, even a shapeshifter. You actively step into alternate personas in order to create meaningful characters. You are the creator and destroyer of worlds.
Of course, a lot of this happens accidentally, particularly with young writers. But my writing mentor used to say that you should do nothing by accident; accidental success is just shooting from the hip and getting lucky. What separates the wheat from the chaff is being deliberate and knowing why and what you're doing.
To me, that's how you know a good writer from a bad, and that's why I argue that you've got to consciously step into that trickster role.
I'd imagine!
Yeah, I agree with you on that one...even if it's just a matter of making readers experience an emotion, that is a purpose. And when you phrase it like that, it's hard to argue. (Gimme a break, I didn't write a thesis on the matter 
)
)Seriously though, trying to think of a counterargument and drawing a blank. I think it's more a matter of whether one sticks very firmly to the established notion of a trickster - and it seems like they do consistently effect change in the myths, setting aside the stories that just set them up to lose (isn't there one about Coyote accidentally trading penises with Raven or some other formerly small-dicked animal?) - which is silly.
And, of course, I agree super hard with doing it consciously. It's like archery, hitting the bullseye once doesn't mean you're a great shot. It means you did it right once.
LOL Hey, I'm just excited that you're interested in this topic. Most people are on board when I tell them my subject, but immediately thereafter, they lose interest and get a glazed over look in their eyes. Thank you for letting me go all lit-nerd on you 
Even in the myths that are just silly - like the one where Coyote removes his penis and sends it across the river to chase the women - there's usually some underlying moral to the story. Though, I confess it's been a long time since I've read that particular myth, so I'll be damned if I remember what the lesson of that was. Okay, but here's an example: Sun Wukong, the Monkey King in Chinese mythology. Here's a creature literally made of stone who made all of Heaven bend to his will. I think the message to be gleaned from his story is that even the most ordinary person can do the most extraordinary things.
I think the drawback to my argument is that it depends on the writer knowing the six universal traits of the trickster. That's probably not the most realistic expectation. But, I'm also of the notion that good writers are good readers first, therefore they should at least be familiar with tricksters in various stories. So, even if they don't consciously know those traits, by being good readers they subconsciously do, and then deliberately internalize them as they write their own stories.
I like your archery analogy; that's a great way to think about it. If you hit the bullseye once, you may just be lucky. But if you hit that bullseye consistently because you're deliberately aiming for it, taking into account wind sheer, distance, and a whole gamut of other factors, then you can yourself a marksman.
Even in the myths that are just silly - like the one where Coyote removes his penis and sends it across the river to chase the women - there's usually some underlying moral to the story. Though, I confess it's been a long time since I've read that particular myth, so I'll be damned if I remember what the lesson of that was. Okay, but here's an example: Sun Wukong, the Monkey King in Chinese mythology. Here's a creature literally made of stone who made all of Heaven bend to his will. I think the message to be gleaned from his story is that even the most ordinary person can do the most extraordinary things.
I think the drawback to my argument is that it depends on the writer knowing the six universal traits of the trickster. That's probably not the most realistic expectation. But, I'm also of the notion that good writers are good readers first, therefore they should at least be familiar with tricksters in various stories. So, even if they don't consciously know those traits, by being good readers they subconsciously do, and then deliberately internalize them as they write their own stories.
I like your archery analogy; that's a great way to think about it. If you hit the bullseye once, you may just be lucky. But if you hit that bullseye consistently because you're deliberately aiming for it, taking into account wind sheer, distance, and a whole gamut of other factors, then you can yourself a marksman.
It's super awesome, and I used to be pretty into myth so that helps
Although sometimes it looks pretty badass when you hit a target dead center while talking to someone. (Okay, fine, this is what I did in college.)
Maybe, don't go bathing in regions where detachable penises are on the prowl? Haha, I didn't get that far into Journey To The West, but I do remember the bit where he decides he wants to be called Handsome Monkey King because he's embarrassed that he's made out of stone. Which confused me cause I thought that was supposed ot be aweosme.
Yeah, I don't think I could name all those off the top of my head, and I doubt I ever actually learned all of them! The archetype isn't difficult to identify, though, which suggests I know it on some level....
Although sometimes it looks pretty badass when you hit a target dead center while talking to someone. (Okay, fine, this is what I did in college.)Groovy 
My love of mythology is partly what inspired the whole thing to begin with. The other was a bizarre encounter with a coyote and raven.
I love the Monkey King. He's so funny. My Chinese zodiac sign is the Monkey, and I used to be ashamed of that. Monkeys are jerks, and I was never terribly fond of them. But then I started learning Kung Fu, and my Sifu asked me if I knew my sign. I told him, and he got all happy and told me, "That's great! That's a great sign to be!" Shocked, I told him I was embarrassed by it and why. So he told me to go read about the Monkey King, the greatest warrior who ever lived, and he said, "Be proud to be a Monkey!" So I read about Sun Wukong, and the more I read, the more I loved monkeys. Before I knew it, I was proud to be a monkey.
Yeah, the trickster archetype is practically encoded into our DNA right next to the hero archetype, so you probably do know all the traits, even if you don't consciously know you know them. Know what I mean? LOL
So you're an archer, I take it?
My love of mythology is partly what inspired the whole thing to begin with. The other was a bizarre encounter with a coyote and raven. I love the Monkey King. He's so funny. My Chinese zodiac sign is the Monkey, and I used to be ashamed of that. Monkeys are jerks, and I was never terribly fond of them. But then I started learning Kung Fu, and my Sifu asked me if I knew my sign. I told him, and he got all happy and told me, "That's great! That's a great sign to be!" Shocked, I told him I was embarrassed by it and why. So he told me to go read about the Monkey King, the greatest warrior who ever lived, and he said, "Be proud to be a Monkey!" So I read about Sun Wukong, and the more I read, the more I loved monkeys. Before I knew it, I was proud to be a monkey.
Yeah, the trickster archetype is practically encoded into our DNA right next to the hero archetype, so you probably do know all the traits, even if you don't consciously know you know them. Know what I mean? LOL
So you're an archer, I take it?
Awesome...and please tell me that story's written down somewhere!
Haha, I always thought they were supposed to be super clever? Hanuman is the first thing I think of when I hear monkey (and holy crap, parts of India are covered in those Hanuman monkeys...no idea what the proper name is). Good you got over it, though
My sign is the Snake...they seem to have a bit of a bad rap, but honestly I've always found them kind of cute, so.
Hahaha, yes! I like it, we're hardwired to be tricky heroes.
Through college. Sadly there are no ranges in this area, I'd love to take it up again.
Haha, I always thought they were supposed to be super clever? Hanuman is the first thing I think of when I hear monkey (and holy crap, parts of India are covered in those Hanuman monkeys...no idea what the proper name is). Good you got over it, though
My sign is the Snake...they seem to have a bit of a bad rap, but honestly I've always found them kind of cute, so.
Hahaha, yes! I like it, we're hardwired to be tricky heroes.
Through college. Sadly there are no ranges in this area, I'd love to take it up again.
I've been trying to write it down, but I've been having trouble. Basically, this is what happened. I had to take my husband to work (he works out in the boondocks, way out in the prairie). I had reached that point in my education where I had to start thinking about writing a thesis proposal, but I had no clue what I wanted to write about. So after I dropped him off, I was thinking pretty hard on that. And then, I saw this coyote running along the road. That, in and of itself, isn't unusual. Coyotes run rampant here. But this one caught my eye. It was enormous, almost as big as a wolf, with no trace of mange, and a beautiful reddish-gold coat. It was like the perfect coyote specimen. What was unusual was that flying not a foot above it was a raven. Again, the perfect specimen. Its feathers were black and glossy, no evidence of mites, no moulting. They were heading together in the same direction. Skeptics have insisted that was just a coincidence. But I swear, they were heading towards the sunset together. They looked like they belonged together, as if a coyote chilling with a raven was the most natural thing in the world.
Well, Monkeys are supposed to be clever. It was just the idea that I was this animal that flings poo at passersby at the zoo. Oh, I like snakes! I tried to catch a rattlesnake with my bare hands last year. And then animal control showed up and told me it was a bullsnake.
So I recently learned that in the Chinese zodiac, there's the Four Pillars of Destiny - you have signs associated with the hour, day, month, and year of your birth. Mine, in that order, are the Rat, Snake, Goat, and Monkey. I wish I had a Tiger, Dragon, Horse, or even Dog in my chart, but whatever. Anyway, I researched them all, of course, and while I had reservations about them because they're sucky animals, I came to love them.
Archery is fun. We had to learn how to shoot in PE in high school as part of a hunter's safety course. My teacher was awful and I couldn't shoot a bow to save my life. Fast forward to a few months ago when I bought a real Robin Hood-ish type of wooden bow for my son at the Larkspur Renaissance Festival. I got to playing with it myself, and with a little guidance from my husband (who's really good at archery), I was able to shoot pretty well. No one was more shocked than me. I guess I just needed a patient teacher.
Well, Monkeys are supposed to be clever. It was just the idea that I was this animal that flings poo at passersby at the zoo. Oh, I like snakes! I tried to catch a rattlesnake with my bare hands last year. And then animal control showed up and told me it was a bullsnake.
So I recently learned that in the Chinese zodiac, there's the Four Pillars of Destiny - you have signs associated with the hour, day, month, and year of your birth. Mine, in that order, are the Rat, Snake, Goat, and Monkey. I wish I had a Tiger, Dragon, Horse, or even Dog in my chart, but whatever. Anyway, I researched them all, of course, and while I had reservations about them because they're sucky animals, I came to love them. Archery is fun. We had to learn how to shoot in PE in high school as part of a hunter's safety course. My teacher was awful and I couldn't shoot a bow to save my life. Fast forward to a few months ago when I bought a real Robin Hood-ish type of wooden bow for my son at the Larkspur Renaissance Festival. I got to playing with it myself, and with a little guidance from my husband (who's really good at archery), I was able to shoot pretty well. No one was more shocked than me. I guess I just needed a patient teacher.
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