Emberblue's avatar
Thanks for that link, I've seen that site before.  It is very well put together and thought out.  They put a lot of attention to detail. :)  I've been confronted with these "contradictions" before. Most of them are not contradictions but a misunderstanding.  People who think they are contradictions don't understand what the Bible says or understand Christian theology.  For example, one of the contradictions listed on that site says "Who spoke to Moses from the burning bush?"  Then it goes on to list several Bible passages that say it was God, the Lord, the Angel of the Lord, an Angel.  Those are all names referring to the same person!  That isn't a contradiction!

A lot of the so called "contradictions" are actually just different Bible verses that are taken out of context.  For example, imagine that I wrote down every word that you said for the last 6 months.  Then I chose a few sentences here and there.  It would be easy for me to make it sound like you are contradicting yourself.  Would it be fair to say you are an unreliable person?  Of course not!  I was twisting your words to make it sound like you were contradicting yourself.

Have you looked into the "contradictions" yourself? Or do you just accept them without investigation?  I'm fairly confidant that I could explain most of them to you.

Now, lets look at the errors in the Bible.  I do acknowledge that there are some typos in the Bible.  Scribes were meticulous about making accurate copies of the writings. However, once in a while it is possible to accidentally put an extra "0" when you are writing "4000" or "40000".  Have you ever made that mistake before?  Lets look at the question "how many stalls of horses did Solomon have?"  1 Kings 4:26 says 40,000, but 2 Chronicles 9:25 says 4,000. CONTRADICTION!!! ERROR!!!  Does this make the Bible unreliable?  Certainly NOT!  A typo in the number of horses Solomon had does not change the Bible's message.  The Bible is about sinners being forgiven by God, how to find salvation through God's love and forgiveness. Even though there is a typo on the number of horse stalls, it does not interfere with the overall Bible message of redemption.  Additionally, there are enough copies of the old scriptures so we can cross reference and find out which copies have typos and which copies are accurate.  If you think that a typo is enough reason to say the Bible is unreliable, let me ask you have YOU ever made a typo? Does that make YOU an unreliable source?

Sure, I would love to show you the evidence. :)  There are many books on the topic.  Would you be interested in purchasing some books to read? Specifically the men who will be speaking at the "Reasons For Faith" conference have a book called  "The Popular Handbook of Archeology and the Bible" by Joseph Holden and Norman Geisler.  Actually, they have several books.  Dr. Norman Geisler has several articles that he wrote about the reliability of the Bible here:  www.normgeisler.com/articles/d… .   Here is an article by Ron Rhodes:  www.ronrhodes.addr.com/article…  I can probably find some more websites for you to read, but I'll need a little time to gather them for you.  I did a quick google search and this site seemed to have a lot of information: carm.org/evidence-and-answers

I listened to the following teaching by Dr. Norman Geisler, I think that he made a lot of great points, please listen to this: www.revival.tv/sermons/guest/c…

I really do think that you make good points and you are a good thinker.  Would you be interested in watching this "Reasons For Faith" conference?  Would you be willing to hear the arguments of Christian experts?  I am very curious to see what your response would be to what they have to say. They will discuss the top 10 archeological discoveries that prove the Bible is reliable, if God is real then why do bad things happen, evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, and reasons why Jesus (not other religions) is the only way to heaven.

 I think that they will be broadcasting the conference in the internet.  It will be November 16, 9am-4pm Pacific Standard Time.  The web address is www.revival.tv
Arkaryon's avatar
sorry but I have to correct you there are many contradictions which are not typos like and which are heavy contradictions not about some numbers but about the teachings etc

for example:
does Jesus judge people?
Yes:
John 9:39 

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

No:

John 12:47 

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Does God work sundays?
No:

Genesis 2:2-3 

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Yes:

John 5:16-17 

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Is there an unforgivable sin?
Yes:

Matthew 12:31-32 

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

No:

Acts 13:39 

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


Has god ever tempted anyone?
No:

James 1:13 

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Yes:

Genesis 22:1 

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, [here] I [am].

2 Samuel 24:1 

And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.


Also there are several other errors and inconsistencies

  1. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. 1:1-2:3

  2. God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before -- by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don't eat dust, do they? 3:14
  3. The Israelite population went from 70 (or 75) to several million in a few hundred years. 1:5,712:3738:26
  4. God led the Israelites through the land of the Philistines, hundreds of years before the Philistines were established in Canaan. 13:17
  5. God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5
    5:26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly -> the world has a geographical end?
    Unicorns, dragons and satyrs are real?^^
    7:2 Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land. - the flat earth has its four corners
also some other interesting things:
  1. Elisha can do all the tricks of Jesus (raise the dead, heal the sick, etc.). Here he cures a leper, but only after the leper dips himself seven times in the Jordan. 5:14
  2. The birth story of Moses is suspiciously similar to that of the birth of Sargon, an Akkadian monarch from the 3rd millennium BCE. (BBC: The tale of the basket2:3
and no I don't accept anything without evidence and proof


to your sites:

carm.org/non-biblical-accounts…

their main example for evidence are flavius josephus -> "The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation."
also he lived probably  37-101 AD - which is not in jesus life time
also Tacitus A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, 
Thallus Circa AD 52,
Pliny the Younger  AD 112.
all of them after jesus potential death - they are not direct sources for that - and often talked only indirectly about it
-mentioning something in text (and especially decades after someones death) IS NOT EVIDENCE

the evidence about the biblical cities
-first: just because a text refers to a real city - doesnt mean it's reliable - for example harry potter does mention london
-second: sure when people write stories they include cities they know - but this doesn't take account for the supernatural things in the bible

So many "evidences" base on the mentionings of josephus - which is not evidence like i said before - it is just an indication and in this case a really bad indication


I would like to discuss this more with you but not through deviantart - it's not an optimal way to discuss things :D also I hate it to discuss thousand things at once but one by one
If you want to discuss I will give you my skype name or something

Emberblue's avatar
Ok, lets discuss them.  I appreciate the challenge. :D  Yes, just one at a time.

Because of my internet availability, and because some of these will take a little time to gather information for a proper response, I don't think Skype will work for me.  I DO like having our responses on here for everyone to read and possibly benefit from.  But I'm ok with discussing this somewhere other than deviantart. Hmm...would you want to discuss via email?  Any other options?  Sorry, I don't want to be difficult, I do want to discuss this with you.

I'm curious...IF I were able to convince you that the Bible is reliable, would you believe in Christianity?
Arkaryon's avatar
ok let's discuss that per email

- Stories can't prove supernatural things ... so I don't think so