The main character of my own series has what you might call superhuman powers, but that doesn't mean he can break the laws of physics or arbitrarily alter his anatomy. You yourself admit that your example is ludicrous. I try to avoid ludicrousness. When I want the reader to take a situation seriously, it does not do to make them laugh instead. One Piece isn't really a good example, because from what I've seen of it it's largely to be taken with tongue firmly in cheek. A guy fighting with a sword in his mouth is supposed to be ludicrous. That's not what I'm going for. It's not what they were going for in my own manga example either.
If that's what you want in your own work, fine, but it had better be damned funny.
Jackie Chan isn't a good example for you. As you note, he does his own stunts, but he actually does them. They are never physically impossible. They're merely improbable, in that the films show him getting it right the first time when as the out-takes show us that's really, really unlikely, and the impracticality of it derives from the unlikelihood. I have no problem with a character who's able to do really improbable things the first time he tries them -- although I'd tend to resist him getting absolutely everything right the first time. Characters like that are boring.
Chan, to his credit, almost never engages in "wire-fu" in movies he himself choreographs. (Maybe it's absolutely never, but I haven't seen all his films. There was a bit of it in Forbidden Kingdom, but that wasn't his choreography.) THAT is breaking the laws of physics, and is something I won't do either.
If that's what you want in your own work, fine, but it had better be damned funny.
Jackie Chan isn't a good example for you. As you note, he does his own stunts, but he actually does them. They are never physically impossible. They're merely improbable, in that the films show him getting it right the first time when as the out-takes show us that's really, really unlikely, and the impracticality of it derives from the unlikelihood. I have no problem with a character who's able to do really improbable things the first time he tries them -- although I'd tend to resist him getting absolutely everything right the first time. Characters like that are boring.
Chan, to his credit, almost never engages in "wire-fu" in movies he himself choreographs. (Maybe it's absolutely never, but I haven't seen all his films. There was a bit of it in Forbidden Kingdom, but that wasn't his choreography.) THAT is breaking the laws of physics, and is something I won't do either.
Here's the thing about my story: It's a different world. Sure, there are many elements of physics that work exactly the same as it does in the real world, but some are different. Bit hard to explain without going into excrutiating detail, but suffice to say that it's in a different world, which I have said already. Same laws don't apply to it as to ours for reasons that are explained in the book. So ludicrous or not, it's possible in that world.
Yes, a guy fighting with a sword in his mouth is SUPPOSED to be ludicrous. And it still looks cool! And it's not really a tounge-in-cheek thing. Oda has stated that Luffy's power was intentionally made a rather silly one so he could be a more fun character, but I haven't read anything about Zoro having a sword in his mouth to fight with being intended that way. And when Arlong tosses mere drops of water at him and Sanji, they compare it to being hit with a shotgun. Drop of water, no matter how hard they're thrown, would never have that effect, and it's deffinitely not a tounge-in-cheek kinda power. It's ludicrous, but that's how it works in that world.
My work isn't supposed to be a funny one. Though it will have some moment of comedy they are fairly few and mostly meant for relief for the reader from all the seriousness. I will admit I do often think I made too serious characters, but that's how they ended up. I'm not gonna change them majorly just to try to make a "better story" or anything. The characters act out the story in their own way, whether they're serious or more light-hearted and fun.
Improbable, yes. I never said impossible. But you have to agree that should such things have been attempted in real life, he'd be dead many times over if he did even the slightest mistake, something that would be highly probable.
Seems we're not gonna end up agreeing on anything anytime soon. You like realistic and well researched, I like over-the-top superhuman abilities and settings in different worlds. Two very different categories. So should we just say "live and let live" and be done with this, maybe?
Yes, a guy fighting with a sword in his mouth is SUPPOSED to be ludicrous. And it still looks cool! And it's not really a tounge-in-cheek thing. Oda has stated that Luffy's power was intentionally made a rather silly one so he could be a more fun character, but I haven't read anything about Zoro having a sword in his mouth to fight with being intended that way. And when Arlong tosses mere drops of water at him and Sanji, they compare it to being hit with a shotgun. Drop of water, no matter how hard they're thrown, would never have that effect, and it's deffinitely not a tounge-in-cheek kinda power. It's ludicrous, but that's how it works in that world.
My work isn't supposed to be a funny one. Though it will have some moment of comedy they are fairly few and mostly meant for relief for the reader from all the seriousness. I will admit I do often think I made too serious characters, but that's how they ended up. I'm not gonna change them majorly just to try to make a "better story" or anything. The characters act out the story in their own way, whether they're serious or more light-hearted and fun.
Improbable, yes. I never said impossible. But you have to agree that should such things have been attempted in real life, he'd be dead many times over if he did even the slightest mistake, something that would be highly probable.
Seems we're not gonna end up agreeing on anything anytime soon. You like realistic and well researched, I like over-the-top superhuman abilities and settings in different worlds. Two very different categories. So should we just say "live and let live" and be done with this, maybe?
Improbable, yes. I never said impossible.
No, but I did. "Impossible" is what I'm complaining about. When you break existing laws of physics (as opposed to speculating on new ones as a science fiction writer does when his spaceships travel faster than light, or subverting them as magic does although the magic must follow its own laws) you're having your characters do something impossible. This is what I would want to avoid.
And no, a guy fighting with a sword in his teeth does not look cool. (I assume he's actually using it that way as opposed to holding a spare in his mouth for later conventional use.) Ludicrous and cool cannot co-exist. They're virtual opposites. If it's one, it's not the other. When you're talking about Arlong, you're talking about a guy with a saw-bladed nose. This is impossible to take seriously (assuming you encounter it as an adult) even given that he's basically an anthropomorphic fish, and I would not take anything about the character seriously. This seems to be true for One Piece characters in general.
This does not mean you cannot put a light-hearted character into serious situations, but the tone of the work overall will not be serious.
If you don't want to believe me about the what effects of how you do things will be on most readers, that's your business. This was originally about pacing; your ideas in that area when it comes to fight scenes don't generally work either.
No, but I did. "Impossible" is what I'm complaining about. When you break existing laws of physics (as opposed to speculating on new ones as a science fiction writer does when his spaceships travel faster than light, or subverting them as magic does although the magic must follow its own laws) you're having your characters do something impossible. This is what I would want to avoid.
And no, a guy fighting with a sword in his teeth does not look cool. (I assume he's actually using it that way as opposed to holding a spare in his mouth for later conventional use.) Ludicrous and cool cannot co-exist. They're virtual opposites. If it's one, it's not the other. When you're talking about Arlong, you're talking about a guy with a saw-bladed nose. This is impossible to take seriously (assuming you encounter it as an adult) even given that he's basically an anthropomorphic fish, and I would not take anything about the character seriously. This seems to be true for One Piece characters in general.
This does not mean you cannot put a light-hearted character into serious situations, but the tone of the work overall will not be serious.
If you don't want to believe me about the what effects of how you do things will be on most readers, that's your business. This was originally about pacing; your ideas in that area when it comes to fight scenes don't generally work either.
What is the deffinition of "impossible?" For different worlds in different stories, "impossibility" changes. In our world, walking on water with no help from equipment and/or technology is impossible. In many stories, walking on water seems like the most natural thing in the world to some. Without any help or special powers, even. It's something that's common, something they can learn, something they're giften with, etc. etc. It's ludicrous, but depending on the story and setting it doesn't need to be ridiculous, and can even be quite cool, depending on what they do when walking on water.
Arlong's not a character that makes one laugh... he's one of the darker characters encountered in the early parts of the manga/anime (though he pales compared to some others). It's something else with Hachi. He looks funny and he acts funny. Arlong's design is supposed to look intimidating, and he actually uses the nose as a weapon. But I suppose this is all about how one views it. I first watched One Piece as a young teen, and although now an adult I still like to look at it the same way because I find that the most entertaining for me. Sure, I can be a bit more sceptical to some elements, but it's all part of what I mentioned before, which is going with the story. If the story says it works that way, then unless it really contradicts something previously stated, it simply works that way. Dragons in tons of stories breathe fire. How? Who knows. They just do. Could be magic, could be something special with their lungs or something else. That's just how it works. But once again it's about personal differences between the two of us. It can't be helped that we're different. Everyone is different and like different things.
I don't have anything published yet, and as a greenhorn I'm glad for any advice I get. But what you're telling me is that my story won't work because it won't follow the laws of physics normal human abilities. But those are your thoughts. You don't like it, and I'm fine with that. You don't have to read it. Even if you do, I will not change what is essential to the story. It's a different world, the laws of physics don't work the same there as in the real world (for reasons that are explained in the story), and where there are people with superhuman abilities and special fighting styles and techniques.
As for pacing a fight scene, I know from experience that it's hard. I have no doubt many, if not all, of my fight scenes need more editing to make them perfect. When I write out the first draft I write on instinct and what I think sounds good at the moment. But editing exists to let writers get a second thought on whether they think the story is good or not and change it should they wish. I'm not a perfect writer. Neither are you, neither is Dorian, neither were C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien or anyone else! We're just human, and we have to live with imperfection. What you find perfect in writing might be something someone else finds unsatisfying or downright bad. The arguement me and you have had thus far merely proves it. We like different things and have such different views. But we both like what we like for our own reasons.
Arlong's not a character that makes one laugh... he's one of the darker characters encountered in the early parts of the manga/anime (though he pales compared to some others). It's something else with Hachi. He looks funny and he acts funny. Arlong's design is supposed to look intimidating, and he actually uses the nose as a weapon. But I suppose this is all about how one views it. I first watched One Piece as a young teen, and although now an adult I still like to look at it the same way because I find that the most entertaining for me. Sure, I can be a bit more sceptical to some elements, but it's all part of what I mentioned before, which is going with the story. If the story says it works that way, then unless it really contradicts something previously stated, it simply works that way. Dragons in tons of stories breathe fire. How? Who knows. They just do. Could be magic, could be something special with their lungs or something else. That's just how it works. But once again it's about personal differences between the two of us. It can't be helped that we're different. Everyone is different and like different things.
I don't have anything published yet, and as a greenhorn I'm glad for any advice I get. But what you're telling me is that my story won't work because it won't follow the laws of physics normal human abilities. But those are your thoughts. You don't like it, and I'm fine with that. You don't have to read it. Even if you do, I will not change what is essential to the story. It's a different world, the laws of physics don't work the same there as in the real world (for reasons that are explained in the story), and where there are people with superhuman abilities and special fighting styles and techniques.
As for pacing a fight scene, I know from experience that it's hard. I have no doubt many, if not all, of my fight scenes need more editing to make them perfect. When I write out the first draft I write on instinct and what I think sounds good at the moment. But editing exists to let writers get a second thought on whether they think the story is good or not and change it should they wish. I'm not a perfect writer. Neither are you, neither is Dorian, neither were C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien or anyone else! We're just human, and we have to live with imperfection. What you find perfect in writing might be something someone else finds unsatisfying or downright bad. The arguement me and you have had thus far merely proves it. We like different things and have such different views. But we both like what we like for our own reasons.