Comment on Love Wins by cosmicspark

Comment History
Autumn-Dreamscape's avatar
I agree love is love and i'm not against people being with whoever it is they want to be with but I don't believe marriage is a right. I'm not religious but to me marriage is affiliated with the church, if the bible says they don't like gays then they're entitled to their opinion. To me, gay people not liking that they aren't allowed to get married is like somebody complaining that they aren't allowed to join a club because they don't meet the requirements... but instead what's happened (just my opinion) is that the club has been 'bullied' into changing their requirements... I don't hate the decision but it erks me that people automatically assume that not believing in gay marriage makes me a small minded homophobe :p (Lick)

either way, beautiful piece 
cosmicspark's avatar
"Marriages in the West were originally contracts between the families of two partners, with the Catholic Church and the state staying out of it. In 1215, the Catholic Church decreed that partners had to publicly post banns, or notices of an impending marriage in a local parish, to cut down on the frequency of invalid marriages (the Church eliminated that requirement in the 1980s). Still, until the 1500s, the Church accepted a couple's word that they had exchanged marriage vows, with no witnesses or corroborating evidence needed."

-www.livescience.com/37777-hist…

What the Bible says is just as irrelevant as what the Koran says or any other random religious text.  If marriage was based on the Bible, then polygamy would be legal everywhere. Men would have as many wives as they could afford (because women are property).

"You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
-Exodus 20:17

Women are property - like a house, a slave, or a donkey (notice the mention of slaves, or servants, which is also sanctioned by your friendly neighborhood war god Yahweh)

"If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy."
-Exodus 21:10

It is assumed by Yahweh in his law decrees that men will marry many wives.  He says "no problemo! just don't neglect the first wife!"


So we learn from this that not only "should" marriage not be based on the church, the bible, or anything religious but more importantly it "isn't" based on the church or marriage.  If it was, we would have polygamy.
Autumn-Dreamscape's avatar
none of this really changes my opinion on whether or not marriage is a right, I am aware that marriage didn't begin with the church but for many years and even today the church has been involved to some degree. I never said it was based of the church I just said that today it is affiliated with the church and I still believe that it is. Also I have no problem with polygamy, whilst I wouldn't marry numerous people, if everybody involved is consenting I don't see why the logic shouldn't be the same as to where gays are concerned. I also don't believe (well, in religion at all honestly) that it's ok to claim you're religious and then pick and choose what in the bible is relevant and what is just something to be taken metaphorically. Maybe that is how marriage should be, but while religion is involved even if i don't agree with their views it should be up to them. For me the step forward would have been to make it so that a civil partnership had the exact same rights as a marriage. Anyway, as I said to the person below me, i'm not going to change your opinion and you probably aren't going to change mine so let's just agree to disagree. 
ViolinBlade's avatar
So you agree women should be used as property? The bible says so after all
Autumn-Dreamscape's avatar
No, when did I say that was my opinion? The bible has a lot of stupid rules that nobody upholds and preaches numerous outdated principles - I don't agree with them but at the same time if somebody chooses that opinion I won't judge, I care more about how people act
cosmicspark's avatar
So you don't think two homosexuals who love each other should be protected and have the same advantages as two heterosexuals who love each other?
Autumn-Dreamscape's avatar
Yes I do fully believe that gays should have equal rights. I just don't believe that marriage with a blessing from a priest (yada yada) is a right. I believe that what should have happened - long ago - is that the civil partnership have all the same advantages/rights/protections as a married couple. As I've said my only stance is that the marriage itself is not a right.
Brinzilla's avatar
Marriage is not affliniated with the church. If it was, atheists wouldn't get married, and guess what? They do. Religion and marriage are independent things.
Autumn-Dreamscape's avatar
thanks for that... I am aware that atheists get married. Yes I realise they are independent things but since a long time ago religion has been involved with marriage and a blessing from a priest has long been necessary for a marriage to be considered legal. I know i'm not going to change your opinion and you probably aren't going to change mine so we should probably just leave it there and agree to disagree. Anyway my point is yes I do believe that gays should have equal rights but I don't believe that marriage is a right.