The reason I care about gender so much is because I'm not particularly interested in friends, but I would like a partner; one really close confidant who I could do everything with. I think that a meaningful relationship can only come from an evolving friendship, though, so I'd like to make friends with people who *could*, over time, become closer to me. My ideal situation would be to have a girlfriend, but no other friends to have to worry about.
Male people can't develop into girlfriends, so I don't have any desire to get to know them. I'd still *talk* to people who are male about things, like in a class setting or through website comments, but I wouldn't want to *befriend* them and talk to them one-on-one and stuff.
I wouldn't talk to girls purely to make them into my girlfriend or anything, and wouldn't start friendships expecting that... but friendships with males would always lead to a 'dead end' that I don't have any interest in, while friendships with females wouldn't have that limit.
Since personality is of utmost importance *too*, that's why I'd hate to be in a class with few or no girls to 'choose from' as friends.
Male people can't develop into girlfriends, so I don't have any desire to get to know them. I'd still *talk* to people who are male about things, like in a class setting or through website comments, but I wouldn't want to *befriend* them and talk to them one-on-one and stuff.
I wouldn't talk to girls purely to make them into my girlfriend or anything, and wouldn't start friendships expecting that... but friendships with males would always lead to a 'dead end' that I don't have any interest in, while friendships with females wouldn't have that limit.
Since personality is of utmost importance *too*, that's why I'd hate to be in a class with few or no girls to 'choose from' as friends.
I'm not particularly interested in friends, but I would like a partner; one really close confidant who I could do everything with. I think that a meaningful relationship can only come from an evolving friendship, though, so I'd like to make friends with people who *could*, over time, become closer to me. My ideal situation would be to have a girlfriend, but no other friends to have to worry about.
Wow, I can't think of too many less desirable traits in a guy. That's what every girl wants in a man is a loser with no friends who wants to cling to her as his sole social support.
Grow the fuck up and learn to be a whole individual before you can ever be half of a couple.
Wow, I can't think of too many less desirable traits in a guy. That's what every girl wants in a man is a loser with no friends who wants to cling to her as his sole social support.
Grow the fuck up and learn to be a whole individual before you can ever be half of a couple.
Thankfully, not every girl in the world is exactly like you.
You do know that 99% of girls will become friends with you and that will be the end of it, right? I've become friends with men and instantly knew that it would never proceed. Just because I'm a girl and they're a guy doesn't mean there's an unlimited ceiling for our relationship. That being said, I've had platonic guy and girl friends that I've been extremely close to.
I'd really start being conscious about your attitude towards your gender. I've had horrible bullying by girls towards me, but that doesn't mean I rule out the possibility of any girl being my friend. You're generalizing 50% of the human race based on a few bad experiences you've had. Girls don't have different personalities than boys. Your classroom isn't going to be less diverse in personality because you only have a handful of girls in it.
I think you should think about why you value a girlfriend so much over normal close friends. Your statements are basically saying "I'm not going to be friends with you because I want you to be my girlfriend, but if I decide that I do want you to be my girlfriend, that possibility better be open to me". You're disregarding a girl's choice. Even how you describe how you want your relationship to be seems a bit needy and controlling. What if your girlfriend doesn't want to do everything with you? What if she doesn't want to be the only person you spend time with? I have some really, really great friends but I'd go absolutely insane if I had to do everything they liked (or everything I like) with them every day. People need breathing space.
I'd really start being conscious about your attitude towards your gender. I've had horrible bullying by girls towards me, but that doesn't mean I rule out the possibility of any girl being my friend. You're generalizing 50% of the human race based on a few bad experiences you've had. Girls don't have different personalities than boys. Your classroom isn't going to be less diverse in personality because you only have a handful of girls in it.
I think you should think about why you value a girlfriend so much over normal close friends. Your statements are basically saying "I'm not going to be friends with you because I want you to be my girlfriend, but if I decide that I do want you to be my girlfriend, that possibility better be open to me". You're disregarding a girl's choice. Even how you describe how you want your relationship to be seems a bit needy and controlling. What if your girlfriend doesn't want to do everything with you? What if she doesn't want to be the only person you spend time with? I have some really, really great friends but I'd go absolutely insane if I had to do everything they liked (or everything I like) with them every day. People need breathing space.
I wish I'd never mentioned this! D:
Because I have a whole complex idea in my head about it, which is so, so hard to explain briefly to strangers with entirely different outlooks on life, different preferences, different experiences, etc... It's natural - though frustrating - that people would question and criticise what I want because it's different to what they want, and I wish I could really fully *explain* it... D:
That's not even what I wanted to start this thread about, though...
I wouldn't expect any girl I took an interest in to DEFINITELY become my girlfriend if I wanted it; I'm aware that things don't work that way. I would never be *seeking* becoming a girlfriend with any girl I ever talked to; I'd only ever want that to happen really, really gradually over the course of months as we got closer and *mutual* feelings developed, and I'm aware that this wouldn't happen at all in most cases.
It's just that there's some chance that it might happen with girls, but *zero* chance with guys.
Males *do* have different personalities to females... or rather, certain, uh, personality types (the ones I find frustrating) are statistically more common amongst males than females. It depends what you notice and look for in personality though; I'm aware that I personally am really... picky, about the sorts of people that I can derive genuine *emotional satisfaction* from being around, because my preferences are unusual. The normal response that more well-adjusted people give to me saying this is something along the lines of 'grow up' or 'get over it' or 'broaden your horizons' or other such things, but I just don't work that way, and it results in frustration on both ends when someone with a different personality essentially criticises me for not being like them...
Anyway, there's a very real chance that I might meet guys who are more sensitive and emotional, like me (though my own personality type thing has about a 0.5% prevalence amongst males; it's more common for females though), and I'd befriend them... But I'd still hate to be in a class that was *nothing but men* because I'm so sick of my life being all males, and it was that that I wanted to ask about in this thread; whether or not digital art courses would have a balanced gender ratio or not.
As for the 'being her only friend' thing, I am an example of someone who wants nothing more than one close bond with a partner, so there must be others like me out there. I have talked to people like this before! People who prefer one close bond and nothing more. I'm aware that this is an *uncommon* preference, but I'd hope to meet someone like this; I'd not want to lure in some girl who *didn't* want something like this.
Chances are that my views will change a lot once I actually go to university, though. I only feel this way due to bad experiences and being sheltered. I really wish I'd never mentioned it... ugh. Every time I try to post in this forum, I have terrible experiences... D:
Because I have a whole complex idea in my head about it, which is so, so hard to explain briefly to strangers with entirely different outlooks on life, different preferences, different experiences, etc... It's natural - though frustrating - that people would question and criticise what I want because it's different to what they want, and I wish I could really fully *explain* it... D:
That's not even what I wanted to start this thread about, though...
I wouldn't expect any girl I took an interest in to DEFINITELY become my girlfriend if I wanted it; I'm aware that things don't work that way. I would never be *seeking* becoming a girlfriend with any girl I ever talked to; I'd only ever want that to happen really, really gradually over the course of months as we got closer and *mutual* feelings developed, and I'm aware that this wouldn't happen at all in most cases.
It's just that there's some chance that it might happen with girls, but *zero* chance with guys.
Males *do* have different personalities to females... or rather, certain, uh, personality types (the ones I find frustrating) are statistically more common amongst males than females. It depends what you notice and look for in personality though; I'm aware that I personally am really... picky, about the sorts of people that I can derive genuine *emotional satisfaction* from being around, because my preferences are unusual. The normal response that more well-adjusted people give to me saying this is something along the lines of 'grow up' or 'get over it' or 'broaden your horizons' or other such things, but I just don't work that way, and it results in frustration on both ends when someone with a different personality essentially criticises me for not being like them...
Anyway, there's a very real chance that I might meet guys who are more sensitive and emotional, like me (though my own personality type thing has about a 0.5% prevalence amongst males; it's more common for females though), and I'd befriend them... But I'd still hate to be in a class that was *nothing but men* because I'm so sick of my life being all males, and it was that that I wanted to ask about in this thread; whether or not digital art courses would have a balanced gender ratio or not.
As for the 'being her only friend' thing, I am an example of someone who wants nothing more than one close bond with a partner, so there must be others like me out there. I have talked to people like this before! People who prefer one close bond and nothing more. I'm aware that this is an *uncommon* preference, but I'd hope to meet someone like this; I'd not want to lure in some girl who *didn't* want something like this.
Chances are that my views will change a lot once I actually go to university, though. I only feel this way due to bad experiences and being sheltered. I really wish I'd never mentioned it... ugh. Every time I try to post in this forum, I have terrible experiences... D:
I get the sense that you have a really idealized view of how relationships work. The kind of relationship you're describing happens far more often in movies and books than in real life. Does it happen? Yeah, but not when someone's planning it out like you are. You can't really force that sort of thing to happen. I said it before and I'll say it again, just because a girl is friends with a guy doesn't mean there's an unlimited ceiling on the relationship. I've been really close friends with (straight) guys for YEARS and there's no potential for it ever to become a romantic relationship, which is exactly how we want it.
For now, assume that there's a zero chance for your relationship fantasy to happen with girls. This is what I meant about choice. It's sort of like if you went to a restaurant and they gave you grilled salmon and you went "I didn't order this!" and they said "Well you didn't SAY you didn't want grilled salmon!". They're giving you the choice in a very weirdly specific way that pretty much constitutes no choice at all. Right now you're sort of assuming the potential for a relationship is there because they're a girl, and completely forgetting that many girls are not interested in relationships at all. The ones who are might have boyfriends or might not be interested in you. Just because you're good friends doesn't mean you can become lovers.
I hope I'm explaining this in a way that makes any sort of sense.
And males really don't have different personalities than girls. I think you're applying generalizations based on poor past experiences. You probably have an aversion to loud, "jock" sort of personalities right? Those exist by the thousands in girls too. Believe me, I live around them. They're all great people though, just not the kind I'd be close friends with. Even emotionally sensitive people generally don't show it until they're close friends with someone (think about it, do you show that side of yourself to strangers?), so maybe stop focusing so much on personality types and just find people with common interests that you can do things with.
Honestly, the kind of person who doesn't want to interact with anyone but their partner is the kind of person you don't want to be in a relationship with. I know it sounds ideal because it's what you want, but even if it works for the first few months or years eventually you're going to develop as a person and want some freedom to do what you want by yourself. Think about how different of a person you were a year or two ago. If that person doesn't grow with you (which odds are they won't because everyone's very different), you're going to have someone clinging on to you and demanding you as their sole entertainment in life. That's going to get extremely aggravating. It goes the opposite way too (if their personality changes and yours doesn't). Besides, what are you even going to have to talk about when your interactions are only with each other?
We're not trying to attack you or anything so stop victimizing yourself. You keep calling yourself sheltered, so we're giving you social information that maybe you don't already know.
For now, assume that there's a zero chance for your relationship fantasy to happen with girls. This is what I meant about choice. It's sort of like if you went to a restaurant and they gave you grilled salmon and you went "I didn't order this!" and they said "Well you didn't SAY you didn't want grilled salmon!". They're giving you the choice in a very weirdly specific way that pretty much constitutes no choice at all. Right now you're sort of assuming the potential for a relationship is there because they're a girl, and completely forgetting that many girls are not interested in relationships at all. The ones who are might have boyfriends or might not be interested in you. Just because you're good friends doesn't mean you can become lovers.
I hope I'm explaining this in a way that makes any sort of sense.
And males really don't have different personalities than girls. I think you're applying generalizations based on poor past experiences. You probably have an aversion to loud, "jock" sort of personalities right? Those exist by the thousands in girls too. Believe me, I live around them. They're all great people though, just not the kind I'd be close friends with. Even emotionally sensitive people generally don't show it until they're close friends with someone (think about it, do you show that side of yourself to strangers?), so maybe stop focusing so much on personality types and just find people with common interests that you can do things with.
Honestly, the kind of person who doesn't want to interact with anyone but their partner is the kind of person you don't want to be in a relationship with. I know it sounds ideal because it's what you want, but even if it works for the first few months or years eventually you're going to develop as a person and want some freedom to do what you want by yourself. Think about how different of a person you were a year or two ago. If that person doesn't grow with you (which odds are they won't because everyone's very different), you're going to have someone clinging on to you and demanding you as their sole entertainment in life. That's going to get extremely aggravating. It goes the opposite way too (if their personality changes and yours doesn't). Besides, what are you even going to have to talk about when your interactions are only with each other?
We're not trying to attack you or anything so stop victimizing yourself. You keep calling yourself sheltered, so we're giving you social information that maybe you don't already know.
I already had what in many ways was an ideal relationship - emotionally at least - for the last 5 or so years; essentially what I'm looking for is 'something else like that'. I say 'emotionally at least' because it was very long-distance (we were only able to meet a few times), which is the reason that it ended; the distance was just too much.
So this 'relationship fantasy' is something based on actual experience.
If I befriended girls, I would not go in *expecting* them to ever become my girlfriend; it's just that there's the *potential* for that to maybe, possibly happen *if* we became good friends, had chemistry, and had mutual interest in eachother. That *potential* would never exist with male friends though.
Certain personality types are more common amongst males than females; there are statistics like this, for example: [link]
While I am bothered by extroverted 'jock' types, that's not the thing that I'm worried about. I've thankfully encountered very few of those in my life.
I wouldn't want to get involved with extroverts, but they're easy enough to avoid and I know they are equally common for both genders.
What bothers me most though is, uh... the 'Thinking/Feeling' difference, as Myers-Briggs defines it.
It's something that's bothered me all my life, but it's only recently that I discovered the Myers-Briggs thing and finally had a *name* for it, which made sense of so much (and led to me falling in love with the system (after incredulously scoffing at it for months) *because* it explained so much that I'd always wondered and felt frustrated about).
T types are statistically more common for males, and F types are more common for females. I'm INFJ, meaning that I'm idealistic and very emotionally sensitive (and yes, I DO show this very openly indeed to any stranger that I come across! I've written loads of journals about it on my profile here and stuff), and apparently INFJ has like a 0.5% prevalence amongst males... though of course it depends where you look. The arts are more likely to attract them than, say, law school or something.
This T/F thing is sort of subtle, so I could very easily befriend someone who's, say, INTJ, but then when things that really mattered to me came up - like emotional concerns - they'd try their best to be good friends, probably, but the way in which they try to help me causes me harm. It leads to frustration for both of us, because they never meant any harm, and I don't feel better due to their good intentions alone.
I run my own community website thing, which has had several thousand members over the years, and it's been going since 2004, and I've been very active in the community there. However, almost all the members are male (89% by statistics, though the percentage of actual posting members seems higher), and I've been enduring this massive 'sausage fest' for years, talking in the forum and chatroom to many, *many* people who are male and into the stuff I'm into (they mainly get there because they like the games I've made).
I write blog posts there sometimes about my ~feelings~ (because as I said, I am very open about my emotional sensitivity), and the 'helpful' responses I get from this group of guys are just downright frustrating because most of them operate on a 'T' level and give me advice when I want *empathy*. They try to 'solve my problem' rather than *understanding how I feel*. (Myers-Briggs types are shown on profiles there, by the way, so I can notice the link between the way people talk and their personality type...)
They aren't trying to be mean, and they're trying to support me; it's just that, well, it's like giving meat to a horse or something.
There are *some* guys I've met on that site whose personalities are more in line with my own, but they're really, really uncommon. So when I say I'm frustrated by guys, I am speaking from a lot of experience.
(There are also T-oriented girls who rub me the wrong way, too... so I know that 'being female' isn't enough to mean they'd be a potential friend.)
Anyway, I find personality types so extremely valuable and useful because they show that we aren't all operating from the same base; that's their main point of importance to me... Showing that we're different, and providing explanations for these differences and predictions for how to treat others who aren't like you.
An "ESTP 8w7" person is going to have *wildly* different desires, values, and attitudes to, say, an "INFJ 4w5", even before you factor in all the massively important life experience stuff, because their minds are simply wired differently.
It's something that I wish people would understand more, so then they'd understand that what works for one person doesn't work for everyone.
Something that causes me a lot of frustration is when one person essentially tells me to be less like me and more like them (not explicitly, but they advise me along the path they themselves prefer), and then accuse me of 'not trying' or tell me to 'grow up' or whatever if I don't like their path as much as they do.
Even if personality types aren't an exact science or anything, they do make the point that we are *different*, and operate on different levels.
Anyway, essentially, I'm looking for someone with a similar personality type as myself. They exist, but they're not common; they're less rare amongst girls.
It's interesting also that stuff I've read - like marriage statistics between different types - shows that this is a common preference for people of 'my type'; while other people are more willing to befriend or go out with many people of a wide variety of types, my own type tends to prefer to pair up with someone the same as them. (A fact that amused me when I saw it, because my own desire to meet people like me predated my discovery of personality types by many years.)
Once I actually get to university, a lot of my thoughts about this will no doubt change... But as it is, the all-male community on my site has been gradually frustrating me more and more and more over the last several years to the point now where the very idea of talking to other guys makes me feel physically sick.
(It's also made me really easily frustrated, unfortunately... Defensive and bitter due to being bombarded by this *unwanted advice* every time I ever tried to bring anything up there... I was fine until about a year ago, but I hate what I've become because of it. So I'm really sorry about being less than receptive to what people are saying here...)
So this 'relationship fantasy' is something based on actual experience.
If I befriended girls, I would not go in *expecting* them to ever become my girlfriend; it's just that there's the *potential* for that to maybe, possibly happen *if* we became good friends, had chemistry, and had mutual interest in eachother. That *potential* would never exist with male friends though.
Certain personality types are more common amongst males than females; there are statistics like this, for example: [link]
While I am bothered by extroverted 'jock' types, that's not the thing that I'm worried about. I've thankfully encountered very few of those in my life.
I wouldn't want to get involved with extroverts, but they're easy enough to avoid and I know they are equally common for both genders.
What bothers me most though is, uh... the 'Thinking/Feeling' difference, as Myers-Briggs defines it.
It's something that's bothered me all my life, but it's only recently that I discovered the Myers-Briggs thing and finally had a *name* for it, which made sense of so much (and led to me falling in love with the system (after incredulously scoffing at it for months) *because* it explained so much that I'd always wondered and felt frustrated about).
T types are statistically more common for males, and F types are more common for females. I'm INFJ, meaning that I'm idealistic and very emotionally sensitive (and yes, I DO show this very openly indeed to any stranger that I come across! I've written loads of journals about it on my profile here and stuff), and apparently INFJ has like a 0.5% prevalence amongst males... though of course it depends where you look. The arts are more likely to attract them than, say, law school or something.
This T/F thing is sort of subtle, so I could very easily befriend someone who's, say, INTJ, but then when things that really mattered to me came up - like emotional concerns - they'd try their best to be good friends, probably, but the way in which they try to help me causes me harm. It leads to frustration for both of us, because they never meant any harm, and I don't feel better due to their good intentions alone.
I run my own community website thing, which has had several thousand members over the years, and it's been going since 2004, and I've been very active in the community there. However, almost all the members are male (89% by statistics, though the percentage of actual posting members seems higher), and I've been enduring this massive 'sausage fest' for years, talking in the forum and chatroom to many, *many* people who are male and into the stuff I'm into (they mainly get there because they like the games I've made).
I write blog posts there sometimes about my ~feelings~ (because as I said, I am very open about my emotional sensitivity), and the 'helpful' responses I get from this group of guys are just downright frustrating because most of them operate on a 'T' level and give me advice when I want *empathy*. They try to 'solve my problem' rather than *understanding how I feel*. (Myers-Briggs types are shown on profiles there, by the way, so I can notice the link between the way people talk and their personality type...)
They aren't trying to be mean, and they're trying to support me; it's just that, well, it's like giving meat to a horse or something.
There are *some* guys I've met on that site whose personalities are more in line with my own, but they're really, really uncommon. So when I say I'm frustrated by guys, I am speaking from a lot of experience.
(There are also T-oriented girls who rub me the wrong way, too... so I know that 'being female' isn't enough to mean they'd be a potential friend.)
Anyway, I find personality types so extremely valuable and useful because they show that we aren't all operating from the same base; that's their main point of importance to me... Showing that we're different, and providing explanations for these differences and predictions for how to treat others who aren't like you.
An "ESTP 8w7" person is going to have *wildly* different desires, values, and attitudes to, say, an "INFJ 4w5", even before you factor in all the massively important life experience stuff, because their minds are simply wired differently.
It's something that I wish people would understand more, so then they'd understand that what works for one person doesn't work for everyone.
Something that causes me a lot of frustration is when one person essentially tells me to be less like me and more like them (not explicitly, but they advise me along the path they themselves prefer), and then accuse me of 'not trying' or tell me to 'grow up' or whatever if I don't like their path as much as they do.
Even if personality types aren't an exact science or anything, they do make the point that we are *different*, and operate on different levels.
Anyway, essentially, I'm looking for someone with a similar personality type as myself. They exist, but they're not common; they're less rare amongst girls.
It's interesting also that stuff I've read - like marriage statistics between different types - shows that this is a common preference for people of 'my type'; while other people are more willing to befriend or go out with many people of a wide variety of types, my own type tends to prefer to pair up with someone the same as them. (A fact that amused me when I saw it, because my own desire to meet people like me predated my discovery of personality types by many years.)
Once I actually get to university, a lot of my thoughts about this will no doubt change... But as it is, the all-male community on my site has been gradually frustrating me more and more and more over the last several years to the point now where the very idea of talking to other guys makes me feel physically sick.
(It's also made me really easily frustrated, unfortunately... Defensive and bitter due to being bombarded by this *unwanted advice* every time I ever tried to bring anything up there... I was fine until about a year ago, but I hate what I've become because of it. So I'm really sorry about being less than receptive to what people are saying here...)
That's an incredible amount of pressure to be putting on your future girlfriend, to be basically your only friend.
It'd be a huge amount of pressure if she were the sort who *wanted* other friends, yes, but I'm hoping to find someone like me, who doesn't. They are out there, since I'm an example of one of them.
That's a huge amount of pressure to be putting on each other. I'm the introvertiest of introverts, and I can tell you that it's a really bad idea. You're not going to listen though, so whatever 
Do you ever change your preferences about really, really important things to you because strangers on the internet - who don't know the nuances of your mind or situation - tell you that you should...? (I'm actually genuinely curious about that; does anyone *ever* change their closest-held values or beliefs from the words of strangers online?)
It's not that I don't understand what you and others are saying... It's just that I can't make myself *want* to have multiple friends. Even if I could see it as something I 'should' do, that's not the same thing as actually *wanting* it...
There's just no way that I can think of in which multiple friends are desirable to me, so even if I did get some, I'd probably just be forcing myself into it, and I'd probably dread having to contact them and I'd spend all my time with them wishing I was with my girlfriend instead.
I'd probably talk to people on the internet though, so it's not like I'd be completely shut off from everything and everyone.
It's not that I don't understand what you and others are saying... It's just that I can't make myself *want* to have multiple friends. Even if I could see it as something I 'should' do, that's not the same thing as actually *wanting* it...
There's just no way that I can think of in which multiple friends are desirable to me, so even if I did get some, I'd probably just be forcing myself into it, and I'd probably dread having to contact them and I'd spend all my time with them wishing I was with my girlfriend instead.
I'd probably talk to people on the internet though, so it's not like I'd be completely shut off from everything and everyone.