Comment on gig photography gear? by orangefruits
Only if you want to shoot from miles away.
Without a lighting engineer on set.
And if there is no lighting guy, what kind backwards ass concert are you going to...
Drop D in the Dark?
Some artists have, multiple flashing red heads and day glow spots are you going to tell me you can't deal with that as well?
Also ISO 25k WTF Are you serious?
Are you shooting outside, in a power cut, at midnight, with no moon?
What concert has no lighting rig?
The levels of derp in this response, all the images you posted of bands are between 18-55mm at F-3.5-5.6 averaging at F4 what you banging on about ?
Even then the bands you have shot are at ISO 200-250 with what looks like a speed light judging on the shadows.
Why on earth would I stand a million miles away for a shot of a band?
The zoom is for better ranged macro...
[link]
And range if I need, as I said I have consolidated two lenses.
also getting an attachment that puts your lens on backwards makes you shoot macro images like a boss xD
Without a lighting engineer on set.
And if there is no lighting guy, what kind backwards ass concert are you going to...
Drop D in the Dark?
Some artists have, multiple flashing red heads and day glow spots are you going to tell me you can't deal with that as well?
Also ISO 25k WTF Are you serious?
Are you shooting outside, in a power cut, at midnight, with no moon?
What concert has no lighting rig?
The levels of derp in this response, all the images you posted of bands are between 18-55mm at F-3.5-5.6 averaging at F4 what you banging on about ?
Even then the bands you have shot are at ISO 200-250 with what looks like a speed light judging on the shadows.
Why on earth would I stand a million miles away for a shot of a band?
The zoom is for better ranged macro...
[link]
And range if I need, as I said I have consolidated two lenses.
also getting an attachment that puts your lens on backwards makes you shoot macro images like a boss xD
Not sure if troll, idiot, or just plain ignorant.
So you first go on insulting bands, then to insulting other photographers.
Maybe when you grow up, you'll realize that actual jazz and blues gigs are done in dark clubs, metal gigs are also mostly dark. Not everything is lighten up perfectly like in a symphony hall. They light gigs to look badass, not to look good in photos.
Don't really know how the fuck you came up with 18-55 f/3.5-5.6, considering I don't even own any lens wider than 24...if you must know, the lens I used for that particular concert was the 24-105 IS f/4L, and I had spent 2 hours trying to convince the club owner to let me set up flashes there, but all I could get a permission to use was on camera flash, so yeah, I made best with what I could. But last I checked, those concert photos weren't the only ones I've took, I don't recall there's a rule out there saying I must post every single good photo I take just so I can impress n00bs online.
You've never shot full frame, have you? or tried to do closeups of band members, especially the ones in the back, have you?
You also fail at assessing light, go ahead and ask around, you'd need f/2.8, ISO 6400 just to get fast enough shutter speed in some reception halls, and those aren't even supposed to be dark, are you really surprised that concerts in dark, smoky jazz clubs are 2-3 stops less light? get real.
No, it's not, a dedicated macro lens is much better than a reversed lens. Your little setup can't compete with the likes of the MP-E 65.
Like it or not, faster glass is made for a reason, and people buy it for a reason.
So you first go on insulting bands, then to insulting other photographers.
Maybe when you grow up, you'll realize that actual jazz and blues gigs are done in dark clubs, metal gigs are also mostly dark. Not everything is lighten up perfectly like in a symphony hall. They light gigs to look badass, not to look good in photos.
Don't really know how the fuck you came up with 18-55 f/3.5-5.6, considering I don't even own any lens wider than 24...if you must know, the lens I used for that particular concert was the 24-105 IS f/4L, and I had spent 2 hours trying to convince the club owner to let me set up flashes there, but all I could get a permission to use was on camera flash, so yeah, I made best with what I could. But last I checked, those concert photos weren't the only ones I've took, I don't recall there's a rule out there saying I must post every single good photo I take just so I can impress n00bs online.
You've never shot full frame, have you? or tried to do closeups of band members, especially the ones in the back, have you?
You also fail at assessing light, go ahead and ask around, you'd need f/2.8, ISO 6400 just to get fast enough shutter speed in some reception halls, and those aren't even supposed to be dark, are you really surprised that concerts in dark, smoky jazz clubs are 2-3 stops less light? get real.
No, it's not, a dedicated macro lens is much better than a reversed lens. Your little setup can't compete with the likes of the MP-E 65.
Like it or not, faster glass is made for a reason, and people buy it for a reason.
You said ISO25k.
That was either a Typo or you're wasting the "Faster glass".
Any way I have sang in a rock band for 2 years paid about between £40-100 per member so I know dives a lot of dives.
I also specialised in gig photography for about 5 years now.
I have a portable lighting set up in case there isn't a lighting guy in said dives like I said before, in the image link posted below (an off cut from a shoot)you can see the Soft box on the floor, next to the smoke machine, so that the smoke is caught in the light.
As for clubs, there really is no excuse to be lazy with your lighting, you are a photographer of course a venue doesn't want flash get a steady fold away kit turn up early and set up with the band.
Also reason I came up with that lens isn't to say that's the lens you used, those are the settings you had on the lens you used, would have been equally used on a cheaper lens for less effort.
Perfect example of a lens capable of that is the kit lens on a lot of the images you had up.
Gigs are grotty places and if that lens is an expensive one, which it probably is compared to the kit lens for all of 60 quid getting smoke and detritus in it is bad.
As for full frame, I was trained on standard SLR cameras and have darkroom training, 3 years from A level to Degree. We were told you get higher grades for self developed photos so that's what I worked with, until about my second to last year when I made the Digital switch due to work load and lack of time to get in a dark room for a few hours.
Full frame does let in more light though so why that would be a down side I don't know. But yes I do shoot on crop, I prefer it for ranged shots and reverse docked macro shooting.
I the dark smoky filled room... I have posted it for you here.
[link]
It shows the lightin set up, not the best of the day not even in final output but the smoke is clear and at the right hand side I took another and that was better but for the purposes of this post that suffices.
Now I have never shot at 3200+,
Because if a job won't pay me, I don't turn up.
If they don't let me have my say, my camera and kit go home and the client covers the cost of travel pre-booking including site recon.
It's all marked out no fuss no muss.
For both my band and my Photography
Yes faster glass is nice to have, yes they let in more light, and yes they are better for output, but it's an expensive paper weight when you go to lets say a rock gig, in a small pub where people spill beer everywhere and your being paid next to nothing.
One drop of juice in the lens, smoke sucked in, a knock or a bump by a punter, good bye nearly 1k,
Cheap steady lighting kit 90 quid 2 lights portable,
Kit lens 60 quid.
Job done. Someone writes them off no insurance premiums need to be raised.
Just shell out the peanuts to buy more.
How bad would it be if you tripped over, this bad?
[link]
Seriously even with insurance getting a hit like that will make your heart sink.
At least body's are durable - no lenses are air tight.
That was either a Typo or you're wasting the "Faster glass".
Any way I have sang in a rock band for 2 years paid about between £40-100 per member so I know dives a lot of dives.
I also specialised in gig photography for about 5 years now.
I have a portable lighting set up in case there isn't a lighting guy in said dives like I said before, in the image link posted below (an off cut from a shoot)you can see the Soft box on the floor, next to the smoke machine, so that the smoke is caught in the light.
As for clubs, there really is no excuse to be lazy with your lighting, you are a photographer of course a venue doesn't want flash get a steady fold away kit turn up early and set up with the band.
Also reason I came up with that lens isn't to say that's the lens you used, those are the settings you had on the lens you used, would have been equally used on a cheaper lens for less effort.
Perfect example of a lens capable of that is the kit lens on a lot of the images you had up.
Gigs are grotty places and if that lens is an expensive one, which it probably is compared to the kit lens for all of 60 quid getting smoke and detritus in it is bad.
As for full frame, I was trained on standard SLR cameras and have darkroom training, 3 years from A level to Degree. We were told you get higher grades for self developed photos so that's what I worked with, until about my second to last year when I made the Digital switch due to work load and lack of time to get in a dark room for a few hours.
Full frame does let in more light though so why that would be a down side I don't know. But yes I do shoot on crop, I prefer it for ranged shots and reverse docked macro shooting.
I the dark smoky filled room... I have posted it for you here.
[link]
It shows the lightin set up, not the best of the day not even in final output but the smoke is clear and at the right hand side I took another and that was better but for the purposes of this post that suffices.
Now I have never shot at 3200+,
Because if a job won't pay me, I don't turn up.
If they don't let me have my say, my camera and kit go home and the client covers the cost of travel pre-booking including site recon.
It's all marked out no fuss no muss.
For both my band and my Photography
Yes faster glass is nice to have, yes they let in more light, and yes they are better for output, but it's an expensive paper weight when you go to lets say a rock gig, in a small pub where people spill beer everywhere and your being paid next to nothing.
One drop of juice in the lens, smoke sucked in, a knock or a bump by a punter, good bye nearly 1k,
Cheap steady lighting kit 90 quid 2 lights portable,
Kit lens 60 quid.
Job done. Someone writes them off no insurance premiums need to be raised.
Just shell out the peanuts to buy more.
How bad would it be if you tripped over, this bad?
[link]
Seriously even with insurance getting a hit like that will make your heart sink.
At least body's are durable - no lenses are air tight.
You know that most venues and clubs don't allow the use of flashes, right? But thanks for saying me, and most band photographers are lazy, much appreciated. You have few clients who allow you to use flash (or setup continues lights for that matter, as there's usually no space for them), good for you, most club owners don't (same evasive answers priests give you for not allowing flash inside a church). If you're rich enough to have the luxury of choosing which jobs to accept, well, great to be you, most of us aren't that lucky, and need to pay for a house and put food on the table, pay bills...
What does singing in a rock concert have to do with photography or light?
Full frame doesn't let in more light, wtf are you smoking? at the same ISO, SS and aperture value, the exposure would be the same, don't believe me? go try it yourself.
I said you'd sometimes need ISO25k at F/4 to get fast enough shutter speed to freeze action (or you'd have a really hard time getting decent keepers). Obviously if you're using faster glass you'd need lower ISO, no one's debating that. I mentioned FF cause it has a wider FoV, meaning the need of longer glass to game the same framing.
I still don't see where the fuck you came up with that, my lens doesn't go as wide as 18, I've shot all my concert photos at f/4, and I've gone up to 105mm in some shots. SO yeah, how is that possible to do with an 18-55? please enlighten me.
And what kit lens are you talking about me using on a lot of my photos? I don't even own a kit lens :/ most my shots are taken either with a Canon 24-105 IS f/4L (which is an L series glass), or the Tamron 90mm macro (which is SP series glass, Tamron's pro line), I don't see how any of those are a kit lens. Or are you referring to the fact that the 24-105 is bundled with the 5D series cameras? It's a $1149 lens [link]
As far as I know, I have 2 photos with the 35-80, and a couple more with a p&s camera :/
That photo is way too dark, just so you know.
I've shot bands for over a year now, in the worst of situations and my glass is fine, it's called being extra careful, and servicing your gear. A lens won't break if you trip and fall, worst case is if it hits front on, and the front element is damaged, but that's why you should be using a lens hood.
Just so you know, L glass doesn't break that easily, it can take a lot of abuse, that's what it's made for, and a 600mm L definitely won't break from just tripping over, this is a lens made to be taken outdoors, and into the wild.
What does singing in a rock concert have to do with photography or light?
Full frame doesn't let in more light, wtf are you smoking? at the same ISO, SS and aperture value, the exposure would be the same, don't believe me? go try it yourself.
I said you'd sometimes need ISO25k at F/4 to get fast enough shutter speed to freeze action (or you'd have a really hard time getting decent keepers). Obviously if you're using faster glass you'd need lower ISO, no one's debating that. I mentioned FF cause it has a wider FoV, meaning the need of longer glass to game the same framing.
I still don't see where the fuck you came up with that, my lens doesn't go as wide as 18, I've shot all my concert photos at f/4, and I've gone up to 105mm in some shots. SO yeah, how is that possible to do with an 18-55? please enlighten me.
And what kit lens are you talking about me using on a lot of my photos? I don't even own a kit lens :/ most my shots are taken either with a Canon 24-105 IS f/4L (which is an L series glass), or the Tamron 90mm macro (which is SP series glass, Tamron's pro line), I don't see how any of those are a kit lens. Or are you referring to the fact that the 24-105 is bundled with the 5D series cameras? It's a $1149 lens [link]
As far as I know, I have 2 photos with the 35-80, and a couple more with a p&s camera :/
That photo is way too dark, just so you know.
I've shot bands for over a year now, in the worst of situations and my glass is fine, it's called being extra careful, and servicing your gear. A lens won't break if you trip and fall, worst case is if it hits front on, and the front element is damaged, but that's why you should be using a lens hood.
Just so you know, L glass doesn't break that easily, it can take a lot of abuse, that's what it's made for, and a 600mm L definitely won't break from just tripping over, this is a lens made to be taken outdoors, and into the wild.
Yeah dunno what I was actually thinking about when posting about the crop letting in more light must have been early in the morning o.O
I dunno if I would want to risk that much money, I take some really funky angles that kinda throw caution out of the window lol.
(picture) I know it is dark I even said it wasn't in the final output, it shows the smoke and the lighting in the club I was working in.
As for calling people lazy...
Yes if you can't bother bring lights or fight your corner expect less,
How do you go about a weekly shop, leaving the trolley outside in case it inconveniences other customers and carrying a full car load in your arms?
Why the hell would you let someone who isn't paying you push you about, A priest will not cancel a whole wedding over 2 discretely placed soft boxes, and a whole gig won't stop because the sound is being affected by directed light.
Argue your corner in the very rare cases you need to.
I dunno if I would want to risk that much money, I take some really funky angles that kinda throw caution out of the window lol.
(picture) I know it is dark I even said it wasn't in the final output, it shows the smoke and the lighting in the club I was working in.
As for calling people lazy...
Yes if you can't bother bring lights or fight your corner expect less,
How do you go about a weekly shop, leaving the trolley outside in case it inconveniences other customers and carrying a full car load in your arms?
Why the hell would you let someone who isn't paying you push you about, A priest will not cancel a whole wedding over 2 discretely placed soft boxes, and a whole gig won't stop because the sound is being affected by directed light.
Argue your corner in the very rare cases you need to.
Heh, we all have our "wtf did I just say?" moments, heck, seems to happen to me a lot lately, so yeah xD
I can definitely see your point, but thing is with L glass is that it's better built, and is made to take some serious abuse, it's quite expensive, yes, but it's built to last. I've dropped mine several times due to people bumping into me while changing lenses, and no damage whatsoever, just a dent here and there.
Well, yes, I would respect the club owner or the priest since it's their territory, thus their rules. They aren't paying me (not when I'm there to photograph the band/couple anyway), that's true, but they can make my job hell, or even preventing me from doing it by having me kicked out of the place, and they'd have every right to do so. Their place, their rules. I wouldn't want people doing things I don't want done on my property. It could very well be much different in the UK, but they do have every right to kick me out if I don't abide by their rules here in Israel. Now, if they would prevent me from doing my job completely, I would stay out of it, and let the client talk to the owner/priest and convince them (their problem, not mine), but if it can be solved without so much headache...
A priest won't cancel a wedding, that's true, but that would be in his interest to not cancel it, since they're paying him. Same with a club owner, he wouldn't cancel a gig, since live bands bring paying customers. I, on the other hand, am not paying the priest, nor am I bringing customers to the club owner (unless he has the club's logo behind the band, then it'd be free publicity on the band's (and my (if I choose to upload the photos)) site. Heck, I don't even buy drinks (just soft drinks from time to time), since I'm working, and I have a long drive ahead of me.
A grocery store on the other hand, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about other people (I'd be nice to them, but not if it'd affect me badly), since they can't stop me from using my trolley, they don't have the authority, and can't really do anything about it.
Bah, too long, and lots of repeating, I apologize for that.
I can definitely see your point, but thing is with L glass is that it's better built, and is made to take some serious abuse, it's quite expensive, yes, but it's built to last. I've dropped mine several times due to people bumping into me while changing lenses, and no damage whatsoever, just a dent here and there.
Well, yes, I would respect the club owner or the priest since it's their territory, thus their rules. They aren't paying me (not when I'm there to photograph the band/couple anyway), that's true, but they can make my job hell, or even preventing me from doing it by having me kicked out of the place, and they'd have every right to do so. Their place, their rules. I wouldn't want people doing things I don't want done on my property. It could very well be much different in the UK, but they do have every right to kick me out if I don't abide by their rules here in Israel. Now, if they would prevent me from doing my job completely, I would stay out of it, and let the client talk to the owner/priest and convince them (their problem, not mine), but if it can be solved without so much headache...
A priest won't cancel a wedding, that's true, but that would be in his interest to not cancel it, since they're paying him. Same with a club owner, he wouldn't cancel a gig, since live bands bring paying customers. I, on the other hand, am not paying the priest, nor am I bringing customers to the club owner (unless he has the club's logo behind the band, then it'd be free publicity on the band's (and my (if I choose to upload the photos)) site. Heck, I don't even buy drinks (just soft drinks from time to time), since I'm working, and I have a long drive ahead of me.
A grocery store on the other hand, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about other people (I'd be nice to them, but not if it'd affect me badly), since they can't stop me from using my trolley, they don't have the authority, and can't really do anything about it.
Bah, too long, and lots of repeating, I apologize for that.
But that's the point, they kick you out of a job, you just charge them for the loss of earnings lol
Hmm, yeah, I can do that, that's true. But it might affect my name as a trouble maker, and reduce my chances of getting another job, which I don't wanna risk unless I really have to. Getting jobs is hard as is, and now it's a dry season as is.
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