Comment on Reflektions_KDE4 v1.57 by linuxfever
Ok, as promised here is some feedback from my testing of your excellent icons set. Unfortunately I couldn't post it to where I uploaded related screenshot due to the limit of 512 characters per comment on Picase Web Albums. So here is link to the picture: [link] ... and I'm pasting my comment below (sorry if it's too wordy). Please take a look at both.
You can see on the picture that in Lancelot window, the icons on the right side under 'Applications' are scaled to 20x20px (I measured it on the 'Utilities' icon) which is between standard sizes 16x16 and 22x22. That affects their appearance, they are blurred which is in contradiction to the clear left-side icons or 22x22px icons shown next to the applet in Gwenview. I highlighted some examples in the Gwenview window, please compare to the same icons in Lancelot.
It seems that Lancelot instead of picking 22x22 icons (or bigger) and scaling them down, it takes 16x16 (or even 8x8?) size and scales it up which must end up in a bad result. The same happens with bespin icons (with even worse effect).
If my assumption is right, it would explain why kAwOken icons (version of AwOken adapted to KDE4: [link]) in the same case look so clear: they are only in two sizes: 24x24 and 128x128px so Lancelot has to pick a bigger size than 20x20 and scale it down.
But now, Oxygen icons look pretty clear too and this theme is in all standard sizes (however, unlike Reflektions_KDE4, Oxygen doesn't include 'categories' under 8x8 so the smallest size Lancelot could pick here is 16x16). At first I thought that this is because Oxygen comes with vector icons as well and Lancelot could use them where scaling is involved. But no, the svg folder has only a few icons and none of the 'categories' ones among them. Maybe Oxygen icons simply don't look so bad after scaling up? Or maybe Lancelot always chooses the smallest available version, so 8x8 for Reflektions_KDE4 and 16x16 for Oxygen - in which case Oxygen icons must look better after scaling up? Or is Lancelot inconsistent and just for Oxygen it does the right thing and picks up a bigger size to scale down instead of smaller to scale up
Should I report a bug to Ivan Čukić (the awesome dude who wrote Lancelot)?
I wonder, if Reflektions-KDE4 had SVG version of all icons included, would that solve the problem? I mean: Lancelot could pick only vectors to scale? Needless to say, having this great set in vector format would a big advantage anyway..
You can see on the picture that in Lancelot window, the icons on the right side under 'Applications' are scaled to 20x20px (I measured it on the 'Utilities' icon) which is between standard sizes 16x16 and 22x22. That affects their appearance, they are blurred which is in contradiction to the clear left-side icons or 22x22px icons shown next to the applet in Gwenview. I highlighted some examples in the Gwenview window, please compare to the same icons in Lancelot.
It seems that Lancelot instead of picking 22x22 icons (or bigger) and scaling them down, it takes 16x16 (or even 8x8?) size and scales it up which must end up in a bad result. The same happens with bespin icons (with even worse effect).
If my assumption is right, it would explain why kAwOken icons (version of AwOken adapted to KDE4: [link]) in the same case look so clear: they are only in two sizes: 24x24 and 128x128px so Lancelot has to pick a bigger size than 20x20 and scale it down.
But now, Oxygen icons look pretty clear too and this theme is in all standard sizes (however, unlike Reflektions_KDE4, Oxygen doesn't include 'categories' under 8x8 so the smallest size Lancelot could pick here is 16x16). At first I thought that this is because Oxygen comes with vector icons as well and Lancelot could use them where scaling is involved. But no, the svg folder has only a few icons and none of the 'categories' ones among them. Maybe Oxygen icons simply don't look so bad after scaling up? Or maybe Lancelot always chooses the smallest available version, so 8x8 for Reflektions_KDE4 and 16x16 for Oxygen - in which case Oxygen icons must look better after scaling up? Or is Lancelot inconsistent and just for Oxygen it does the right thing and picks up a bigger size to scale down instead of smaller to scale up
Should I report a bug to Ivan Čukić (the awesome dude who wrote Lancelot)?I wonder, if Reflektions-KDE4 had SVG version of all icons included, would that solve the problem? I mean: Lancelot could pick only vectors to scale? Needless to say, having this great set in vector format would a big advantage anyway..
Thanks for your feedback! I have also noticed that Lancelot's icons look quite blurry but I had not bothered until now. I tried your theory and built the icon set including only 128x128 and 24x24 and the result looks 10 times better, proving that you are right. I think this is a matter that should be resolved in Lancelot, starting with the question why it uses 20x20 instead of the standard 22x22 or 16x16?
Regarding the vectors, I recently started working on vectors using Inkscape but I am still at a great amateur level. I agree it would be great having the theme vectorised but this is something that would take me a really long time...
Regarding the vectors, I recently started working on vectors using Inkscape but I am still at a great amateur level. I agree it would be great having the theme vectorised but this is something that would take me a really long time...
Thanks for confirming. I've sent e-mail to Ivan (not in a mood today for reporting bugs on kde bugzilla..) I'll let you know when get a response.
So you don't have svg version.. Mhmm, that's not too good, especially for yourself I think. It could save you plenty of time if you had it: easier to maintain, make new versions, resize etc. Also KDE itself uses vector icons if available. And last but not least me and billions of KDE users want them
!! I think you've got to fix it 
And I'd like to help (if you don't mind). I could try to vectorize [trace] some in inkscape (it's pretty good at this comparing to some commercial soft). It shouldn't be a problem with the simplest ones - the output vector files should come out small, be editable and look very close if not identical to the original pngs. But it may be some trouble with more sophisticated icons, even to the point that it would be easier to create them from scratch. I'll be in touch..
So you don't have svg version.. Mhmm, that's not too good, especially for yourself I think. It could save you plenty of time if you had it: easier to maintain, make new versions, resize etc. Also KDE itself uses vector icons if available. And last but not least me and billions of KDE users want them
!! I think you've got to fix it And I'd like to help (if you don't mind). I could try to vectorize [trace] some in inkscape (it's pretty good at this comparing to some commercial soft). It shouldn't be a problem with the simplest ones - the output vector files should come out small, be editable and look very close if not identical to the original pngs. But it may be some trouble with more sophisticated icons, even to the point that it would be easier to create them from scratch. I'll be in touch..
Just forwarding the mail I just sent to tobaj
> Hi, Lancelot is not really scaling items - kdelibs are, but this is
> definitely my fault - have no clue why I went for non-standard icon sizes.
>
> Nevertheless, I've just committed a patch to 4.7 and master which sets the
> 20x20 and 24x24 icons to 22x22.
>
> Cheerio and thanks for reporting
>
> Ivan
> Hi, Lancelot is not really scaling items - kdelibs are, but this is
> definitely my fault - have no clue why I went for non-standard icon sizes.
>
> Nevertheless, I've just committed a patch to 4.7 and master which sets the
> 20x20 and 24x24 icons to 22x22.
>
> Cheerio and thanks for reporting
>
> Ivan
That's absolutely smashing Thanks for your rapid fix and response! If there are any plans for further 4.6 releases, would it be possible to push the fix to that branch as well? Just to make it more stable.
Thanks for your rapid fix and response! If there are any plans for further 4.6 releases, would it be possible to push the fix to that branch as well? Just to make it more stable.No problem
4.6.5 is the last planned release, as far as a I know. We are soon to release 4.7
4.6.5 is the last planned release, as far as a I know. We are soon to release 4.7
Your comment about KDE using vector icons if available is very interesting but I have not been able to confirm it (except for the systray icons). I have created the folder icon in inkscape, put it in a folder named scalable and deleted all the png folder icons from the theme to make sure that KDE will only use the scalable one. Unfortunately, it does not seem to work and the folder icons fall back to the oxygen one. Any ideas why this could be?
I could send the scalable folder to you too so you can try if you would like to.
I could send the scalable folder to you too so you can try if you would like to.
Not sure why it didn't work for you. Try this pure svg-only theme: [link] Although it's for GNOME and it's quite old you'll see quite a few icons replaced with this set in KDE (e.g. in Kickoff under Applications and Computer, in Dolphin, context menus and.. hell yeah! - in Lancelot!)
BTW area.o43 was my favourite set on Gnome for a long time. It's slightly modified and upgraded version of area o.42 (by different artist: [link]) which I think was the original set.. It fits very well with Elegant Brit gtk theme ([link]) which I think was ported to KDE as well.. Eh, memories.. But no way I'm coming back to GNOME, hell no
! And I know what I'm talking about, I was on Gnome for about 4 years..
BTW area.o43 was my favourite set on Gnome for a long time. It's slightly modified and upgraded version of area o.42 (by different artist: [link]) which I think was the original set.. It fits very well with Elegant Brit gtk theme ([link]) which I think was ported to KDE as well.. Eh, memories.. But no way I'm coming back to GNOME, hell no
! And I know what I'm talking about, I was on Gnome for about 4 years....and yes, please send me the svg folder icon. My e-mail address: tobaj33@gmail.com. Can't wait for it 
!
!In what exactly format did you save the icon: Inkscape-svg or plain-svg (you can choose between)? AFAIK it should be plain-svg. Inkscpe adds to Inkscpe-svg files its own tags which are not a part of the official svg specification. That could cause the problem.. Basically Inkscape-svg should be treated as Inkscape native format and files meant to be used outside the application should be saved in plain-svg..
Just tested myself: edited applications-graphics.svg in Inkscape > saved as plain-svg > then changed icon theme and back to area.o > Kickoff > Applications > my edited icon was there.
Then I repeated the same except different editing and saving in Inkscape-svg. It still worked. I guess it may depend on a particular file. Maybe to this one Inkscape didn't add any extra tags (can't be bothered to look into the source) or it did, but they were simply ignored by KDE. Anyway in both cases edited icons were displayed correctly..
Then I repeated the same except different editing and saving in Inkscape-svg. It still worked. I guess it may depend on a particular file. Maybe to this one Inkscape didn't add any extra tags (can't be bothered to look into the source) or it did, but they were simply ignored by KDE. Anyway in both cases edited icons were displayed correctly..