yamihoole's avatar
Hey yeah! I forgot about those two! Yeah the Immunity Syndrome had some great moments! Like when Spock leaves the ship and Bones says good luck afterward. And who can forget "SHUT UP SPOCK! WE'RE RESCUING YOU!" :)

I totally forgot about the Private Little War one! But yer so right! What IS going on there??

I've also noticed that Bones seems to consider himself the only one allowed to pick on Spock. Not so much early on, but as the show went on, Bones seemed to get defensive sometimes when other people picked on Spock. Possibly because Bones understood him more and more. Maybe not, but thats what I see sometimes :D

Speaking of which, I totally consider Search for Spock to be a Spock/Bones movie. The scene near the end where Bones is talking to an unconscious Spock and goes "I've missed you. I dont think I could stand to lose you again" totally get to me :) Not to mention the whole Spock trusting Bones with his katra thing :D
HapticMimesis's avatar
Haha, well. This is late. Like, really really late. But if you're still interested, I just finished exams and was watching more TOS episodes and a ran across a couple of instances that I totally did not remember from watching them as a kid!

1) In "Conscience of the King", Spock and McCoy are discussing (what else?) their captain's odd behavior. McCoy is drinking, and invites Spock to relax and join him multiple times. Also, to explain Kirk's sudden order to transport the acting troupe, McCoy mentions that the daughter of the star player is very attractive, hadn't Spock noticed? Then he reconsiders and says, and I quote, "Of course, your personal chemistry would prevent you from seeing that." The whole conversation is hilarious.

2) In "Spector of the Gun" McCoy seems tense from the beginning. Chekov dies, and when Spock tells the captain that he "knows the feeling" he's experiencing over Pavel's death, McCoy jumps in and says some of the most hurtful words he ever says to Spock, fueled by his grief and anger. But Spock responds gently, and in their next scene together, complements the doctor out of the blue. McCoy's guilt and regret is evident on his face. But they seem to have reconciled a bit, and make physical contact for what must be the first (and second time) in the episode, passing a homemade gas grenade back and forth. Then, at the end, Kirk orders Spock to mind meld with each of them to convince them of the unreality of the bullets. Spock's meld with McCoy is infinitely tender, his voice dropping to a whisper, and closing his eyes at the end. He's standing not even a foot away from McCoy, I swear. (Personal Space is illogical, doctor.) The meld is even better than the one he gives to Kirk! (Kirk turns away half way through to stare dramatically into the distance.)

3) I used to feel sad that Bones got left out of a lot of the "action" in "A Piece of the Action". But I watched it again (because, let's face it: fizzbin is glorious) and did you know that almost every time you see Spock and McCoy on screen they're not only side by side, they're pretty nearly squashed together! And McCoy is so gentle with Spock! He's constantly looking at him, angles his body towards him - I don't even think he once insults him this episode. Even his teasing is mild, as when Spock tries to contact the Enterprise through the radio transceiver and picks up a ball game by mistake!

4) The Galileo Seven. Just. Wonderful. McCoy, stuck in a wrecked shuttle on a hostile planet with a cold, logical vulcan and five other crewmen (who are FREAKING OUT). It's awesome. We get the tension, but at the end McCoy defends Spock from the anger of the other crewmen, AND rescues Spock, who is stuck under a boulder, despite Spock ordering him to leave him and get to safety. He complements Spock on his ingenuity, as well, when Spock lights their fuel on fire as an emergency flare. It's such a good episode!
yamihoole's avatar
Of course I'm interested. I'm always interested about Spock and Bones :) I gotta say though, some of the things you pointed out in these episodes I either never noticed or caught on to. Partly cuz a couple of them arent ones I watch very often. I will say I've noticed a few instances like in Conscience of the King, where one thing Bones and Spock have in common is a mutual worry over the Captain whenever he's acting weird. Elaan of Troyius comes to mind when Spock & Bones interrupt Kirk during a makeout session and neither one of them lifts so much as an eyebrow in response. Totally not surprised by this at all. Then when they find out he touched her tears, Bones turns to Spock and goes, "well, we're in trouble" Another was obsession when Spock & Bones tag-team and confront Kirk about his odd behavior, nearly threatening to get him to turn over command. (Have I mentioned those before? I dont remember) I was like, "Hey look at you two, workin together!"

I love it when Spock mind melds with Bones in Spectre of the Gun too! There's definitely something gentle about it, now that you mention it. Like Spock knows Bones hates it so he's trying to be as gentle as possible with it. This reminds me of the novelization of Star Trek III when Sarek and Jim find out Bones has Spock's katra and it kinda went like this:
Sarek- Had he ever melded with Spock before?
Jim- a few times. In emergencies.
Sarek- How did he respond to it?
Jim- He didnt like it

Turns out, Sarek says Bones is allergic to Spock! Or at least his mind melds. In response to this Jim laughs and Sarek wonders whats so funny.

I think Bones got a little left out in a Piece of the Action too. Especially at that look Spock gives him when Jim comes up with his 'masquerading as gangsters' plan. His look just says "Well one of us will have to stay here. Looks like its you Doctor"

I actually dont watch Galileo 7 often for the reason that almost everybody (except Scotty) starts bitching at Spock for one reason or other. Although Bones does defend him in spots. One reason why I'll always have a soft spot for Scotty. I dont think he's ever gotten on Spock's case about anything. Not even Jim can say that. Sure's he's gotten worried and doesnt always agree, but he does bitch about it. Like Gamesters of Triskelion, some epic moments with Spock, Bones and Scotty on the bridge there.
HapticMimesis's avatar
They totally expect Kirk to jump at every attractive female. ^_^ That's actually another problem I have with Kirk/Spock. No one was standing behind Kirk, twisting his arm and forcing him to flirt with, kiss, and fall for every other pretty girl. He genuinely falls in love with several of them during the five-year mission! (Think Edith Keeler. I mean, Spock was RIGHT THERE. What.) It's one of the many reasons I don't see them as more than really, really good friends. The other being that, no matter who Kirk was "in love with" at the time, his true love was freedom, embodied by the Enterprise. It wasn't loyalty to the fleet, or even the Federation, that kept him in the stars. It was the exhilaration of being unbound. That's why he knew he would die alone. It's very moving actually.

Also, taking the movies into account is important and very telling as far as the relationships between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

In Generations, Kirk gets sucked into the Nexus. Note: neither McCoy nor Spock were on the Enterprise B with Kirk, though both were still alive and in Star Fleet. The Nexus provides those trapped within it everything they most want. Picard, when caught in the Nexus, receives the family he's always wanted, complete with his nephew, alive and well. It's a tear-jerking scene, which the audience accepts as very telling about Picard's deepest dreams. Kirk gets a dog. And a lady that we never actually see, but whom he apparently fell in love with.

When we last see McCoy, on the other hand, one of the first things he chooses to bitch about is, what? Vulcans. That's right. They're foremost on his mind. :)

Also, if you have the opportunity, go rewatch STIV:The Voyage Home. Almost every time you see Spock and McCoy, they're together. They board the ship together. McCoy sits next to Spock the entire voyage (except when he's perching on the console behind or in front of him). When Spock leaves the bridge to test his theory about the probe's signal, both Kirk and McCoy start after him - but Kirk tells McCoy to stay behind (WHY?). McCoy refuses, stating that "somebody's got to keep an eye on him!" They proceed to stand very near each other, until Kirk cuts between them (at which point they make room, but move back together when Kirk steps away.) When Spock hides his ears with a strip of his robe, he looks to McCoy for approval. Spock is concerned when Kirk sells his glasses, a gift from Bones. Spock chooses not to go to dinner with Kirk and Gillian, even though he was invited, and instead goes back to the ship where McCoy and Scotty are preparing the bay for whales. McCoy's encouragement gets Spock to guess at the time warp calculations, and then has to explain the captain's reaction to Spock. I could go on. They're basically stuck like glue to each other for most of this movie. It's pretty adorable. Plus, McCoy is looking very fragile. Kirk seems absolutely unsympathetic to or unaware of his old friend's condition (McCoy's life was in danger just last movie, did you forget, Kirk??) so if McCoy and Spock were finding strength in each other's company, I'm all for it.
In addition, Leonard Nimoy directed They Voyage Home. I think the fact that there's more subtle McCoy/Spock interaction in this movie than in most of the others really says something. Spock wanted McCoy around, guys. :dummy:

And you're totally right about Scotty. He's just generally awesome. No one dislikes Scotty! It's impossible! :heart:
yamihoole's avatar
Some good points made there again! I dont totally follow the Kirk/Spock thing, i can see where people get it from and I accept it, but I prefer to think of them as brothers rather than lovers.

LOL yes! McCoy on TNG! And they stick him with Data, of course!

I enjoy Voyage Home, and I caught the same thing you did. Except for when he's hanging out with Scotty (or going after Chekov) he spends most of his time with Spock and sticks close by him. The only issue I have is they never really acknowledge what happened between them. Oh it's mentioned in ST IV, but never really discussed anytime after that. I would have liked to have seen something like what was in the novelization where Bones and Spock have a little heart-to-heart about it. I havent read the book in awhile but I remember some of my favorites lines were when McCoy says to Spock something like "I understand you, and it scares me" and Spock says "Is it so bad to understand me? I understand you better as well" and McCoy says "Of course its not a bad thing, I'm just not used to it..." and the conversation goes on from there.
HapticMimesis's avatar
Oh, goodness. I've written you a novel. My apologies in advance. Feel free to read or not read, skim at your leisure, etc. :P I really need to learn to be brief. X) You are a real champion, putting up with me. :trophy:

And I really need to go read some of the novelizations, apparently. :) I haven't, because as a child I was disillusioned by the lack of McCoy in most ST novels, and I didn't want to ruin my impression of the movies. But if they're as good as you say, I must have them!

I feel like, with Kirk and Spock there was always that attraction. But several things kept them from becoming lovers, in my mind. First, Spock was bound to T'Pring for the entire first season. Second, he chose Pike above Kirk in "The Menagerie". It wasn't due to his "Vulcan Loyalty", in my opinion. That was an act of love, what he did. He went far above and beyond duty and loyalty when it came to Pike. I think in the end Kirk not only understood, but appreciated that action, yet I do believe it would have been a barrier. Third, Kirk. He is a romantic, but also longs for freedom above all else. He cannot commit to any single person, as he shows again and again. He is a truly free spirit, and to bind him is to kill him. He thrives in the freedom of his love for Spock and McCoy. He knows that no matter where he goes, or what he does, these men are with him. He fears dying alone, but knows that so long as those two are with him (and he specifically says this to both of them) he is fine. But since he never can tie himself down to any single relationship or person (apart from the Enterprise, which is really just symbolic of his freedom) he suffers from a great loneliness.

Actually, it just occurred to me that all three of them are bound together by their loneliness, in part. Mm. Lovely. See, this is why I love talking with fellow fans! You make me rethink these things, and come to new knowledge of my beloved characters! :heart:

But to continue. The fourth thing that I think kept Spock and Kirk in the Brothers-But-Not-by-Blood category for me was the open acknowledgment of their friendship. In the first season ("Naked Time"), Spock is so ashamed of feeling friendship. But Kirk helps him to overcome this. They call each other their friend all the time, openly. Spock calls him "Jim", in public. It's all entirely too open and above-board to strike me as romantic. If Spock was so ashamed of friendship, just imagine how he'd feel about falling in love! In view of his aversion to discussing sexual topics, and his avoidance of romantic liaisons, I feel like he'd have a lot more difficulty expressing his affection for Kirk if it went beyond friendship. I mean, it would shame him to have others see his heart so openly.
But with McCoy, it's different. His relationship with McCoy is rarely specified, and never to each other's faces. When he asks Kirk down to his wedding ("Amok Time"), he says to Kirk that it is his right, to bring his closest friends. THEN he turns and says "I also request that McCoy accompany me." Indirectly calling him one of his closest friends. During "Is There In Truth No Beauty", Spock shares consciousness with an alien ambassador. The ambassador, speaking through Spock, calls Kirk Spock's friend openly, in front of the whole bridge crew. Then he looks at McCoy. He laughs, delightedly, a joyful belly-laugh, and says "also of long acquaintance". Since this is after "Amok Time", and it is already understood that McCoy is one of Spock's closest friends, why skirt the issue? Unless the ambassador knew that Spock did not want it publicly specified. That thing that hangs between them, and causes them such discomfort. That tension, that nameless relationship. In "Bread and Circuses", Maximus asks Kirk whether Spock and McCoy are friends or enemies, and Kirk replies that he's "not sure they're sure." Yet, in "The Empath", while McCoy is unconscious, Spock tells the Thelosians that he is their friend. THAT'S what made me wonder, originally. The unspoken love that is and is not friendship. That's what's missing between Kirk and Spock. I can appreciate those who support Kirk and Spock as a romantic couple - but for all these reasons, I think they were mistaken. I think they were distracted, just as they were meant to be, just as Spock and McCoy would have wanted.

It's what makes them special. :)

:heart: Thanks for talking about these guys with me!! It really makes my day. :hug:
yamihoole's avatar
Well I read the whole thing. :) I dont often get to talk Trek with people who can write novels worth of discussion about it. Yay for the Internets! :XD: I may be writing a novel back....

I can understand what you mean about there being a lack of McCoy in certain ST novels. I was disappointed by this one book that I thought was gonna be about Bones & Joanna. They were both in it, but for only a few chapters and most of it was about Jim =P Heck, there's sometimes a lack of Spock in them and it's mostly all about Jim. I can tell you a few titles of McCoy centric stories if you want. And yes, the movie novelizations are pretty good, mainly cuz they can expand on what was in the movie, with expanded or deleted scenes that werent in it. The novelization of ST III for example, goes for like, 70 pages before you actually get to the stuff that was in the movie.

Out of the other novels, the Crucible series by David R George has one novel each for Jim Bones and Spock. I really like the Spock one. The Spock one also has a some Spock & McCoy in it especially in the beginning and near the end, and its very emotional. The Bones one is good, but lengthy and kinda sad. The Romulan Way is almost entirely Bones centric, as Jim & Spock are only there for a few pages. Granted though, a lot of it also deals with Romulans and what they do with themselves. In that one Bones is actually on Romulus trying to make contact with an undercover Federation agent whom the Feds believe has defected. It actually got turned into a series of books called Rihannsu I think.

Another good McCoy centric novel is Doctor's Orders where Jim actually leaves Bones in command of the ship (even though Spock's there...some kinda regulation loophole). Or course jim is on a planet and loses contact while Bones is in command during a life or death situation. But hey, Spock is there to help him. Granted, it takes about 70 pages before Bones is actually left in command but its all good :) I really like this and would have loved to have seen an episode of that! I think hilarities would definitely insue. There is one episode where Bones is somehow 'in charge' or whatever and has to place Spock under arrest. He looks so out of his element! :XD: Another one I like that isnt particularly Bones centric but as some good Spock & Bones moments is The Wounded Sky. A lot of technical talk in that one which I kinda skim over, but there are some nice emotional moments. And Spock actually calls him Leonard! I would have loved for Spock to have called him Leonard just once in the series or movies.

Now, on to Spirk. ;) You brought up some good points. Some that I hadnt thought of. I agree with what you feel about Jim, he is a bit of a free spirit. It's almost like he falls in love too easily (how many times was he in love with a chick? 3 or 4 I think), and so cant let himself get attached to any one woman. I think yer right about the fact that they came together because they were lonely. Which makes it odd to me in For the World is Hollow when Bones says he's had a lonely life. I'm always like 'well yeah, maybe you did before, but what about now? you have Jim & Spock! which yes, isnt the same as a romantic relationship with that chick but still!'

Now that you bring it up, I have noticed that Spock admits his friendship to Jim a lot more often than his one with Bones. Weird. Maybe that's a reason they're always bickering, that neither one knows quite where he stands. Perhaps that makes it more special when Spock DOES acknowledge it, like in the scene you mentioned from The Empath. And in the lift scene in Amok Time when Spock also asks for McCoy i'm like 'well yeah, cuz it would be rude to invite just Jim when Bones is standing right there' =P I also notice when Spock says to T'Pau that they're both his friends Jim gives Bones this look like 'You know what that means? He likes ya!' The things I read into these eppys....(Of course though the thing that sealed it was Spock trusting Bones with his katra. That was another thing mentioned in the ST IV novelization. Sarek realized that Spock must have placed a lot of respect and trust in Bones and that Spock must have thought very highly of his character to trust him with such a task)

You certainly brought up a point that I never thought of in that Spock was so uber private about anything relating to sex, it would be very difficult for him to openly admit to a romantic relationship.

Whew! Am I all talked out? For now I guess. I also wrote a lot but whatevs. I enjoy these discussions too :)
HapticMimesis's avatar
Hahaha, I'm glad you don't mind my rambles. I do so enjoy writing them. XP

I actually own Doctor's Orders! It's a good one! :D I bought it for the cover art, and enjoyed the story as well. I feel like I read the Crucible series, and was not overly impressed by the author's characterization of McCoy, for one reason or another. It's been awhile, so I couldn't tell you what bothered me; I'd have to go back and reread it.

MY FAVORITE Star Trek novel is The Romulan Way. OH MY GOODNESS. So good! Bones, on his own, being competent and irascible, in an interesting and fully developed culture! WHAT. This is the stuff dreams are made of! I read this one on a regular basis. :)

Wow. This conversation (this fantastic, quality conversation) has gotten so long I had to go back and read it again, to make sure I wasn't repeating myself! XD

I note that I have yet to mention body language as it relates to Spock and McCoy. Which is weird, because it's one of the things that tipped me off to the pairing. Star Trek characters make a regular habit of invading each others' personal space, which I believe to be a result of traveling so long in close quarters. The same thing happens to men aboard a submarine. And yet, this can't account for all of it, since the spacing between crew members is pretty distinct and consistent. (ie, you rarely, if ever, see Spock cuddled close to Sulu or Rand. All of the male crew members tend to maintain a respectful physical distance from their female crew members. All three members of The Trio smush together in doorways, over consoles, standing around, etc. These are regular patterns observable throughout the series.) There are exceptions to every rule, of course, but in general, the three main characters are physically closer to each other than to any one else on the series. I think this is to visually illustrate the intimacy of their friendship on screen - but it's funny, because it's unusual. I've watched television shows from this period, and while cinematic spacing is closer than in real-life, the spacing on Star Trek is notably and particularly close. No allowance is made for the camera's lack of depth, and the main characters often appear to be standing on top of one another. And this happens all the time, even though the series had a different director for practically every episode!

I read somewhere that "mirroring" is an important physical and psychological part of intimacy. When you copy someone's physical attitude and gestures, you create a connection with them that is almost entirely subconscious. It can be used to establish rapport, and can ease conversation/understanding. In fact, couples who have been together for years mirror each other's movements so thoroughly that their faces begin to look alike, from using the same facial muscles! It goes so deep, that nostril flaring and pupil dilation (which are just impossible to control to that degree) sync! Mirroring is, necessarily, a large aspect of comedic chemistry and timing. And it's one of the main aspects I notice between McCoy and Spock. (Now, a lot of their physicality reflects that they are in Starfleet. They stand "at ease", and "at the ready", just like trained service men do today. But that's not what I'm referring to.) Spock and McCoy mirror each other all the time. When standing side by side, they lean towards each other. They wage eyebrow wars. They cross their arms alike, they steeple their fingers the same way [link] , and are constantly close enough to bump into each other if they turn [link] [link] Here's a capped conversation from "I, Mudd" where the mirroring is apparent: [link]

I also noticed that as the series progressed, Spock and McCoy started playing cat-and-mouse with their eyes. They did not do this in the first season, that I saw. They started to skirt each others' stares (despite continuing to stare throughout the series... Bones, in particular) in the second season. I do the same thing when I am attracted to someone, but don't want it to be obvious, don't want them to see it in my eyes. For one reason or another, I think that they definitely did not want it to come up, to be said or commented upon during the series. I think it's one of the reasons their "aggression" escalated, actually. In the first season, they don't actually fight much, or violently. It's definitely reactionary, on McCoy's part.

In addition, Spock's hands play an important role. We all know the lore about Vulcan hands. Spock is usually pretty careful about his hands, and about touch, in general. (Despite Nimoy occasionally forgetting himself! :P) And Spock uses specific gestures to communicate certain things. Not only does he touch McCoy a lot, without need, but he's typically very gentle, as well (as in "Man Trap", where he momentarily wrestles over a phaser with McCoy, urging him to destroy the salt monster that is attacking the captain. But he chose not to rip the phaser from McCoy' hands, despite the danger the monster posed to Kirk. Instead, Spock physically attacked the monster - significant since Vulcans try to avoid physical violence if possible - and allowed the monster to throw him against the wall rather than force the phaser from McCoy's grip.) And when there is need, when Spock must touch McCoy to communicate something important, he does so very specifically. When McACoy is dying in the Empath, Spock cradles his face with one hand, and with the other holds his wrist with two fingers. The only other time I've seen that two-finger caress in the Star Trek universe, it was between Vulcan lovers (Sarek and Amanda in "Journey to Babel", Spock and Saavik in "Search for Spock"). Spock specifically uses two fingers to hold onto McCoy for several minutes, while he is conscious. Spock is communicating something specific (I say this, because that's actually a very uncomfortable and unstable hold. I tried it with my sister, to see if there was any reason for it. He wasn't taking McCoy's pulse, since he was using the two-fingered grip before his hand slid to McCoy's wrist. No, it's a very specific gesture.)

Just a thought.

And here's a special cap from their meld in "Spectre of the Gun", just as a treat. :) [link]
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