Comment on A Bizzare Religious Epiphany... by Shadsie
While I am not Christian, I am Pagan, I understand the frustration that comes of having ones religious convictions questioned by people who think they are better than you because you believe and they don't (I have the same problem all too often). By the way, anyone who thinks that religion is going the way of the dodo bird is nuts, the beginning of religious expression is what marked the beginning of civilization, anthropologically speaking.
Some thing are "just there" as you say. I always wonder about atheists, it must be very hard to stick to believing there is nothing beyond humans in the universe when a tornado runs over a town and flattens it or a hurricane levels a city. Nothing says "know your place, mortal" like that.
Another argument in favor of God (or the Gods...I am Pagan after all) having a sense of humor comes from my grocery store days. I used to have to put back returned items and so many times I would be staring at the items for several minutes before I could see it on the shelf. Its another variation on the key theme. And I agree, the platypus too...maybe the opossum too.
Some thing are "just there" as you say. I always wonder about atheists, it must be very hard to stick to believing there is nothing beyond humans in the universe when a tornado runs over a town and flattens it or a hurricane levels a city. Nothing says "know your place, mortal" like that.
Another argument in favor of God (or the Gods...I am Pagan after all) having a sense of humor comes from my grocery store days. I used to have to put back returned items and so many times I would be staring at the items for several minutes before I could see it on the shelf. Its another variation on the key theme. And I agree, the platypus too...maybe the opossum too.
Opossums have such interesting skulls...
I remember my days in retail. I can relate. I'm so glad I work in a barn now.
I've actually talked to atheists online on a forum thread who would point to things such as hurricanes and tornadoes as proof of no gods or spiritual forces (at least not benevolent ones) because of the senseless destruction. They claim both the "bad" and the "good."
These were some very nice people, too, actually (not all atheists are pushy at all, most I've met aren't, actually). I remember this topic coming up over someone on a fan board I go to needing some debate material for a "philosothon" at their school and they were happy to hear my views on such matters, and found my P.O.V. interesting. I shared my "God as author" idea and *didn't* get laughed at, thankfully. It was a very good dialogue until a more Fundamentalist-type Christian came in and started poking at everyone else (including me, if I remember correctly). Then it sort of devolved into a pointless a "vs." type thread and I left it.
I remember my days in retail. I can relate. I'm so glad I work in a barn now.
I've actually talked to atheists online on a forum thread who would point to things such as hurricanes and tornadoes as proof of no gods or spiritual forces (at least not benevolent ones) because of the senseless destruction. They claim both the "bad" and the "good."
These were some very nice people, too, actually (not all atheists are pushy at all, most I've met aren't, actually). I remember this topic coming up over someone on a fan board I go to needing some debate material for a "philosothon" at their school and they were happy to hear my views on such matters, and found my P.O.V. interesting. I shared my "God as author" idea and *didn't* get laughed at, thankfully. It was a very good dialogue until a more Fundamentalist-type Christian came in and started poking at everyone else (including me, if I remember correctly). Then it sort of devolved into a pointless a "vs." type thread and I left it.
Lucky, I would love to work in a barn. All the people I have ever dealt with in/around barns have always been so nice...retail, not so much.
For my strange way of thinking, storms can be either good or bad. Often they are over all good, either because the area needs rain (*cough* Austin *cough*) or it makes humans rebuild strong and better. Or it can be overall bad because it brings out the worst in humans...mostly the politicians in the effected area.
I am going to guess that "God as the Author" is similar to "God as the Watchmaker", which is the line of reasoning I am very familiar with. Fundamentalist Christians are normally very bad Christians, if you look in the Bible. They are like the men who would pray in the streets very loudly that Jesus wasn't impressed with, shall we say.
For my strange way of thinking, storms can be either good or bad. Often they are over all good, either because the area needs rain (*cough* Austin *cough*) or it makes humans rebuild strong and better. Or it can be overall bad because it brings out the worst in humans...mostly the politicians in the effected area.
I am going to guess that "God as the Author" is similar to "God as the Watchmaker", which is the line of reasoning I am very familiar with. Fundamentalist Christians are normally very bad Christians, if you look in the Bible. They are like the men who would pray in the streets very loudly that Jesus wasn't impressed with, shall we say.
After getting into another pointless argument with a stranger on the Intertubes:
I've become *convinced* that anyone who freely labels *themselves* as "militant" is just using a code word for "I'm bigoted and will deny that I'm bigoted because I think my prejudice is fact!"
And for all the "being about social justice and morals" that self-proclaimed "militants" tout? I don't think they're nearly as interested in that as they are in trying to tear down others and feeling superior to others. I'm fairly free in talking about being on the "progressive" end - a Christian who likes seperation of church and state, is favorable to gay rights, etc. Yet, I've had people tell me that I *couldn't* be a Christian because I believed in Love and Peace, or... because I had non-Christian friends...
It makes me think that they really don't *care* as much about "social equity/social progression" as much as they do just fitting people who dissagree with them into a box.
And you being a Pagan, I imagine that you get it even worse, sometimes.
I used to be fairly Fundmanetalist, years ago, so I know how that mindset works, too - you get so concerned and focused about getting to Heaven/"believing right" that you fail to consider other people, and that they may have reasons for their own views.
I think that's what's wrong with humans in general - we fail to consider others, to dare to see other people as being just as human and complex as we are individually - whether our obession is this religion, that religion, lack thereof or... fandom shipping! - Just anything.
I've become *convinced* that anyone who freely labels *themselves* as "militant" is just using a code word for "I'm bigoted and will deny that I'm bigoted because I think my prejudice is fact!"
And for all the "being about social justice and morals" that self-proclaimed "militants" tout? I don't think they're nearly as interested in that as they are in trying to tear down others and feeling superior to others. I'm fairly free in talking about being on the "progressive" end - a Christian who likes seperation of church and state, is favorable to gay rights, etc. Yet, I've had people tell me that I *couldn't* be a Christian because I believed in Love and Peace, or... because I had non-Christian friends...
It makes me think that they really don't *care* as much about "social equity/social progression" as much as they do just fitting people who dissagree with them into a box.
And you being a Pagan, I imagine that you get it even worse, sometimes.
I used to be fairly Fundmanetalist, years ago, so I know how that mindset works, too - you get so concerned and focused about getting to Heaven/"believing right" that you fail to consider other people, and that they may have reasons for their own views.
I think that's what's wrong with humans in general - we fail to consider others, to dare to see other people as being just as human and complex as we are individually - whether our obession is this religion, that religion, lack thereof or... fandom shipping! - Just anything.
I have dealt with the militant sort...they are really the worst sort of Christian. I thought Christianity was Love and Peace...well Love and Peace and setting a good example, with a little charity work thrown in for good measure.
I think there are two sorts of Fundamentalist Christians. Those who really believe they are doing what is best, trying to save other people's souls and those who love being the Holier-Than-Thou because its good for their egos.
I think there are two sorts of Fundamentalist Christians. Those who really believe they are doing what is best, trying to save other people's souls and those who love being the Holier-Than-Thou because its good for their egos.