Comment on Libertarian Socialist Flag by BullMoose1912
I’m not sure if I already ran this argument by you, but just in case: Libertarianism advocates the protection of individual rights including life, liberty, and property. Socialism advocates the abolishment of property rights for the sake of holding everything in common. How is either philosophy compatible?
the word libertarian specifically means socialist/anarchist. the only reason it has come to mean right wing to some is because right wingers have a rich history of re-defining terms.
You beat me to it.
Libertarian in the sense of social libertarianism, not economic. (Basically anarchist.) No classes or nation states, free association between people instead of strict governments. As opposed to state socialism with its nationalization of industry, state ownership of property, state ownership of industry and means of production and its central economic planning. (What most people unfortunately think of when they think of socialism. I disagree with it too.)
Land, means of production, firms, etc. not owned privately by a firm or publicly by the state but collectively. Firms organized by worker-owners, not by one boss, i.e., worker's self-management and decentralized planning by the worker-owners of the firms. This should explain it better than I could. [link]
Basically how people lived for most of human history, the mindset emphasizing cooperation over competition.
I think I sent you this article before, but it explains how a free-market economy could work in all of this. [link]
Land, means of production, firms, etc. not owned privately by a firm or publicly by the state but collectively. Firms organized by worker-owners, not by one boss, i.e., worker's self-management and decentralized planning by the worker-owners of the firms. This should explain it better than I could. [link]
Basically how people lived for most of human history, the mindset emphasizing cooperation over competition.
I think I sent you this article before, but it explains how a free-market economy could work in all of this. [link]
All very , very true . Peace , man . Liberty shall be enjoyed by all the workers . Long live the Revolution !
I thought that was anarcho-communism.
Regardless, in a free market, people can run their business where one person or group of people own the company, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. The only way such can be stopped is if it's more efficient for corporations to divide the company so that everyone owns an equal share of it, which is possible I suppose.
Land, not owned by individuals? What's stopping people from owning land? Other people or agencies?
Also, I believe most of recorded human history relied on some form of market that we are currently using. I don't think humans really lived the way you described for very long. The only exceptions would be very primitive tribes, and even they would "own" some form of property (even if they shared land). The reason they could share land is because they were a tight knit community in which people who didn't conform were exiled from the group. Private property allows people who share different views to live amongst one another.
Libertarians believe in private property. What you suggested is anarcho-communism.
Regardless, in a free market, people can run their business where one person or group of people own the company, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. The only way such can be stopped is if it's more efficient for corporations to divide the company so that everyone owns an equal share of it, which is possible I suppose.
Land, not owned by individuals? What's stopping people from owning land? Other people or agencies?
Also, I believe most of recorded human history relied on some form of market that we are currently using. I don't think humans really lived the way you described for very long. The only exceptions would be very primitive tribes, and even they would "own" some form of property (even if they shared land). The reason they could share land is because they were a tight knit community in which people who didn't conform were exiled from the group. Private property allows people who share different views to live amongst one another.
Libertarians believe in private property. What you suggested is anarcho-communism.
The funny thing is that the first person ever to use the word Libertarian was an anarcho-commist called Joseph Déjacque, in 1857. The word libertarian was always used by anarchist way before propertarian apporpriated it for themselves. And if one or two people owned the company than every one else who work for it doing so by wage slavery. Anarchists argued that it is the goverment and current system of capitalism, especially the current property laws that is making sure that we can't create a true worker's self-management throught the use of worker councils and cooperatives.