914four's avatar
Well said. There is a great story of a CF-18 pilot who was invited to fly in a MiG-29 in 1989, and he was suitably impressed. I found the story here: [link]
zulumike's avatar
Thank you for the link.

The MiG-29 is based on the F-15 design except with some advanced tweeking by the The Russians. Your link talks about air skidding and "high-alpha" basically stalling the AC and then an abrupt vertically hover. It took 5,000 ft ( CF-18) vs. 500 ft (Mig)to basically to accomplish the "cobra" manuever a deadly manuever in combat. Also, the Canadian pilot mentions it had a quick or turn. That has been well know that soviet aircraft have a very fast turn rate. I wonder why? These manuevers are accomplished by "controlled jet vectoring" just something I have heard.

Also, the Canadian pilot did not get all of the secrets of that aircraft's capabilities. I am sure.
I think the Canadian pilot realized that the MiG-29 is not so bad of a fighter AC. I would like to hear from Top-Gun pilots of what they think of the Russian fighters of today.
LoginTrap's avatar
MiG-29 as well as Su-27 based on Soviet aerodynamic research. They have nothing to do with F-15, except for the fact that supposed to counter it. One of aerodynamic test models looked like F-15 and was rejected as many others.
The plane that actually look like F-15 is MiG-25. But it was made earlier. Besides it was Americans who got Russian plane, Russians never captured F-15.
zulumike's avatar
Yes, I have been to Russia, worked there for two years
at a tractor factory for Caterpillar. I have several good friends in St. Petersburg, Samara and Chelyabinsk.

Yes, The Russian have very quiet and faster subs than our attack subs. I worked at General Dynamics Electric Boat Div. on our Submarines.

No, NORAD cannot stop every russian AC.

Yes, Russia has hard kill missiles.

Take a chill pill and stop reading old literature.

Sense you are unknown and dress-up like a star-war troll I don't take much credance of your sources and knowledge.
By the way you need a bigger sword if you are going into battle. May the force be with you.
LoginTrap's avatar
See - it was Caterpillar, not Russian factory. And let me guess - they just assembled tractors from imported parts? Thats not a production. Meanwhile Russian tractor factories practically all dead. I know for sure about one in Cheboksary for example.

Now "Seawolf" and "Virginia" class actually very quiet and reasonable fast (you are going nosier as speed increases, so its impossible to speeding underwater anyway). Russian torpedoes by the way outdated horribly, standard of 50s.
And such things as "Captor" unknown in Russia.
And not even ask about minesweepers - Russian navy still use WWII era paravane. During international exercises our ships not even tried to deal with modern mines that were successfully removed by Western ships equipped with modern minesweeping systems.

Yes NORAD can. There is not many bombers anyway, its not like Soviet might of Cold war era. And there is only few supersonic.

Tell me please about our hard kill missiles, I never heard about them. X-55 hardly a wunderwaffe.

Мне очень жаль что я выгляжу как "star-war troll", возможно доказательством моего русского происхождения будет время, в которое я отправляю сообщения. Конечно американцы тоже не всегда спят по ночам, как и я, но я пишу из России, из московского часового пояса и по времени это должно быть видно. Сейчас у нас 14:07
zulumike's avatar
Our Seawolf Class is no longer in production, only two built, I worked on the first sub. You have no clue of the latest class the US is working on.

I could tell you why Russian subs are as quiet as ours today. But I won't. You have no idea of the "cat and mouse games" that occur underwater everyday.

Do you really know anything about the Russian Akyla Class sub.

Do you how fast subs can go underwater and why its important?

Do you know what covers the hull of subs and why?

Answer those questions correctly and I will give you a Red Star.

Here is my friend's russian translation:

"I'm very sorry that I look as " star-war troll ", time in which I send messages will be possible the proof of my Russian origin. Certainly Americans too not always sleep at night, as well as I, but I write from Russia, from the Moscow time zone and on time it should be visible. Now at us 14:07"
LoginTrap's avatar
I just checked. Actually there is 3 Seawolfs and 9 Virginias, 5 in construction and another 4 planned.
Virginia class almost as good as Seawolf, albeit slower (thats nonessential).
Akula (in NATO designation) is equivalent of Los-Angeles class. No match to new American subs. In Russia Akula designated as Shchuka-B,which translates as pike or jackfish. So to say there is Russian designation Akula for a strategic missile submarine that known as Typhoon in NATO.
Russian navy have only 10 operational Shchuka-B class subs. As far as I know US navy operates 42 Los-Angeles class subs.

Of course we know about "cat and mouse games". As a matter of fact I had a honor to talk with retired submarine commander just a year ago. He said by the way that Americans detected them often.
So to say about games, I liked to play "Sub Command".

They use some kind of rubber to cover subs to reduce noise. Also for that reason many things inside of the hull isolated, put on noise reduction platforms and there is something else like active noise reduction system, but this is on latest sub only, thats not even Akula.

Red Star is out of Russian award system today. Its crosses in fashion, as our government so anticommunist that cant stand red stars, but loves aristocratic crosses of tsarist regime, thats more suitable for their ambitions.
914four's avatar
I think it's clear from the tone of his story that he was suitably impressed with the MiG 29 :-)
You have a great gallery by the way, I need to come back and spend more time browsing.
LoginTrap's avatar
Russian pilots wasn't so happy with that plane because of particularly short range. Also there was a problem with radar losing targets in some situations.
914four's avatar
Are any pilots ever truly happy with any plane? [someone I know well]* in the RCAF once admitted that he preferred the Phantom to the CF-18, despite all of the CF-18/CF-188 additional features. Alot of "transition" pilots mistrusted the finicky electronics in the CF-18, and I'll bet many will say the same about the F-35 (It only has ONE engine! How idiotic is that?).

*[censored to protect his identity]
LoginTrap's avatar
As a matter of fact decision to phase out one engine fighters in the early 90s looks wrong today.
914four's avatar
After Russia, Canada has the largest land mass in the world, and the CF-18s and CF-188s are called upon to patrol areas where there are no landing strips for thousands of square kilometers. A single engine fighter is similar to embarking on a road trip without a spare tire.
LoginTrap's avatar
Its not about patrolling airspace, we have Su-27 and MiG-31 for that and MiG-29 have limited range anyway.
Two engine fighters expensive and complicated, especially for poor Russia, for real fighting USSR had single engine fighter-bombers and now we haven't any. Even rich USA use F-16 and with great success.
Russia ended up using Su-25 and Su-24. First one have limited range, both can't be used as fighters and yet expensive as any two engine plane.
It worth mentioning that neither Su-27 nor MiG-29 can conduct strike missions as they are not equipped with bomb sights (hence they never participated in real wars in Afghanistan and Caucasus). I've heard how they were ironically called "Peace Pigeons".
So instead of having normal universal planes like all normal countries do, we have fleet of pretty specialized planes for every particular mission, which is damn expensive. And so to say Russian economy reached its limits, even Su-25 now considered too expensive and they even planned to replace it with Yak-130, which is obviously bad idea as this is not normal fighter-bomber but trainer.
Su-35 and new wannabe stealth supposed to be able to attack ground targets, but obviously they will be too expensive, which makes them not so cost-effective.
In fact incapability of airforce ended in a situation when army fights wars on its own. That happened in Chechnya same happened in South Ossetia.
zulumike's avatar
Thank you. Goods talks. Apprciate the feedback.
914four's avatar
I'm not terribly knowledgeable about modern aircraft but I am highly opinionated :-)