Comment on The Thiniking Orc by TurnerMohan
I always felt this was covered. In both the books as well as the movies. Maybe not out rightly stated, but just common sense-wise.
When all of the creatures and living things of Middle Earth were created, the evil 'god(s)' felt life was there to serve them, that they were lessers rather than other beings. Certain 'gods' created Dwarves, or the Elves, etc. When the Orcs were created, I'm pretty sure that they were a perversion of Elf bloodline, bred to be barely human and only to serve.
Their role was never to think in the first place. Their role WAS to be cannon-fodder, as stipulated by not only the writing of the author, but the designs and machinations of the evil characters therein.
I always thought that was rather obvious. To see one sitting reading or acting peacefully is essentially a perversion of what they were intentionally designed for - aggression, bloodletting, warmongering, etc. An Orc would probably eat a book rather than read it, or even before contemplating what it could possibly be.
When all of the creatures and living things of Middle Earth were created, the evil 'god(s)' felt life was there to serve them, that they were lessers rather than other beings. Certain 'gods' created Dwarves, or the Elves, etc. When the Orcs were created, I'm pretty sure that they were a perversion of Elf bloodline, bred to be barely human and only to serve.
Their role was never to think in the first place. Their role WAS to be cannon-fodder, as stipulated by not only the writing of the author, but the designs and machinations of the evil characters therein.
I always thought that was rather obvious. To see one sitting reading or acting peacefully is essentially a perversion of what they were intentionally designed for - aggression, bloodletting, warmongering, etc. An Orc would probably eat a book rather than read it, or even before contemplating what it could possibly be.
I'd recommend you re-read 'the choices of master samwise,' or even 'the uruk-hai' and see if you cant mine from their text likely evidence of a little more capacity for humor, camaraderie and intellectual curiosity than you're currently giving the orcs credit for.
Be that as it may, and I will certainly look through those parts again, surely the exception doesn't disprove the rule?
Even if one were to have Orc 'intellectuals', I honestly don't see them surviving long in Orc society in a more generalised sense, you know?
Even if one were to have Orc 'intellectuals', I honestly don't see them surviving long in Orc society in a more generalised sense, you know?
A moment like this is nothing if not exceptional, but I dont know how rare such exceptions would be, one of atleast a few small moments in any orc's life, i would imagine, where their underlying humanity (or elf-manity) long surpressed both by genetics and culture, comes to the surface, quickly to be buried under the hate and fear that seems to rule their lives
tolkien remarked that the orcs would likely be redeemable by god, though not by elves or men, make of that whatever ratio of good to evil in an orcs life is pleasing to your sensibilities
tolkien remarked that the orcs would likely be redeemable by god, though not by elves or men, make of that whatever ratio of good to evil in an orcs life is pleasing to your sensibilities
Just out of curiosity how would that apply to trolls? Did they have greater depth of thought than it seemed or were they just large predatory animals that could be coerced into service by more powerful (or more clever) beings>