Comment on Setting Things right - Ending 4 by hippo2
Her choice to abandon humanity has something definite and hasn't the hypocrite aftertaste of the superhero ending. Still, the whole story was about the moraly question about how to handle powers. Will power corrupt you or will you use it in a wise way?
The ending, where Martha becomes human again, shows that she can't handle the power and runs away from it.
The ending, where Martha abandons humanity is the corruption ending. She succumbs to the genie powers and looses her human qualities.
The ending, where she stays a genie and helps humanity, is the ending where she struggles on to keep her powers in balance.
Do you still prefer the geniedom ending?
The ending, where Martha becomes human again, shows that she can't handle the power and runs away from it.
The ending, where Martha abandons humanity is the corruption ending. She succumbs to the genie powers and looses her human qualities.
The ending, where she stays a genie and helps humanity, is the ending where she struggles on to keep her powers in balance.
Do you still prefer the geniedom ending?
As I said, the geniedom line, while cliche on it's own rights, it's at least free from heavy-handed moralisation. That makes it readable, unlikely the "goodie-two-shoes" pro-human choices. Sure, the geniedom version of each paragraf turns pretty much the entire cast into jerks, but they are also the same jerks, only with bonus hipocrisy in the human choices.
I guess I'm overthinking this.
I guess I'm overthinking this.
You could also see is as you wrote: Martha has given up all the restrictions of human society.
Still, there are some rules concerning genies. What do you think about them?
Still, there are some rules concerning genies. What do you think about them?
I think that there is a clear difference between having laws and having law enforcement of any kind. What good for are rules, when there is nothing stoping you from breaking them? And your series is plagued by this issue, since whenever some "rule" is mentioned, it's also carelessly broken. Then why exactly even bother with creating the sole concept of "genie rules" if none of your characters is living by them? That's my problem with any kind of fictional code which is treated lightly - then how the hell said code even came to existence if the society which is supposedly ruled by it couldn't care less, aside from sleazy writting.
Told you that I'm overthinking it.
Told you that I'm overthinking it.
I know. This is a long discussion. Especially about the "mind control rule" and the "not killing rule". I agree that the first of these rules has been broken several times with no consequence. About the second of these rules, there is an argument about the definition of killing:
Does it already count as killing if a genie transforms a human into an object? The crucial point is what happens to the mind of the victim. I wouldn't say transforming a man into a woman or into an animal is killing, even if the mind adapts to the new body. The victim is certainly still alive. (Some people argue, that the change of mind is an act of dying - I don't). So the same should be applied to inanimate TFs. My argument against seeing this TF as a killing is, that the victim can still be restored. The soul of the victim (or however you would call it) is still inside.
If a genie would use a wish to have someone run over by a truck, it couldn't be reversed, since the soul has left the corpse. That's the reason why genies can't bring the dead (unless you count creating an undead as fulfilling that wish).
For the mind contol rule, it is clear that genies can break it, and Martha and others already did. And I see your problems. In the flashback episodes with Sami, there was a genie society with law enforcement. The Genie thief was locked away in a bottle by Lady Amhadina for stealing. We can assume that the other rules had been enforced in that society too. But this society has long been gone.
If you look at ancient laws, like the Code of Hammurabi from ancient Babylon, you find pretty harsh rules. But these rules no longer are valid, since the Babylonian Empire is gone. For the genies, it is a similar situation. One feeling of the whole story is, that Sami is indeed the last of his kind.
So, one aspect of the Martha stories is indeed, that without enforcement, rules are pretty pointless.
Does it already count as killing if a genie transforms a human into an object? The crucial point is what happens to the mind of the victim. I wouldn't say transforming a man into a woman or into an animal is killing, even if the mind adapts to the new body. The victim is certainly still alive. (Some people argue, that the change of mind is an act of dying - I don't). So the same should be applied to inanimate TFs. My argument against seeing this TF as a killing is, that the victim can still be restored. The soul of the victim (or however you would call it) is still inside.
If a genie would use a wish to have someone run over by a truck, it couldn't be reversed, since the soul has left the corpse. That's the reason why genies can't bring the dead (unless you count creating an undead as fulfilling that wish).
For the mind contol rule, it is clear that genies can break it, and Martha and others already did. And I see your problems. In the flashback episodes with Sami, there was a genie society with law enforcement. The Genie thief was locked away in a bottle by Lady Amhadina for stealing. We can assume that the other rules had been enforced in that society too. But this society has long been gone.
If you look at ancient laws, like the Code of Hammurabi from ancient Babylon, you find pretty harsh rules. But these rules no longer are valid, since the Babylonian Empire is gone. For the genies, it is a similar situation. One feeling of the whole story is, that Sami is indeed the last of his kind.
So, one aspect of the Martha stories is indeed, that without enforcement, rules are pretty pointless.
That's exactly the point - Martha was "introduced" to the dead law. It's like we today would like to use mentioned by you Code of Hammurabi. It simply doesn't apply to her. First, becasue it's dead letter. Second, because there is no law enforcement. As far as I care that means that Martha and every single genie introduced in your series could do what he or she please.
And if I remember right, she herself invented few of "laws" just to mess with mortals in early instalments. Or that's now retconed?
And if I remember right, she herself invented few of "laws" just to mess with mortals in early instalments. Or that's now retconed?
Basically, the genies don't have to care about the rule, that they are not allowed to bend the mind of a person. This is the only "rule" I wrote can be broken. The other rules are
- No killing: As I mentioned before, genies can't simply do it. (I even removed the episode where Martha eats the girl she had transformed into a cookie.) It doesn't count as killing when a genie transforms a person into an animal and the animal is later killed. That's just the normal risk of life. Also, the inanimate TFs don't count as killing either, since the soul of the victims is still inside the object.
- Not bringing the dead back: Again, it isn't posible to bring the soul back into a dead body.
- Not wishing for more wishes or that the genie is bound to a master for an indefinite time. It's pretty selfexplanatory. (Ok, I already thought about loopholes here, like wishing that the genie is bound to me until I die and then wishing that I would never die. But either can the genie simply deny the second wish as it would violate this rule, or the genie can find another loophole. Being bound to statue can be quite an advantage for a genie, if the genie doesn't have to spent all time inside his vessel).
I just wonder what rules Martha should have invented. Jennifer proposed some rules, fav.me/d2j4w2b and Martha simply said yes, because she didn't know about the rules back them. Some of these rules are the same as the ones Sami told her about later. Some, like not changing history, simply aren't rules.
Or do you refer to another episode?
- No killing: As I mentioned before, genies can't simply do it. (I even removed the episode where Martha eats the girl she had transformed into a cookie.) It doesn't count as killing when a genie transforms a person into an animal and the animal is later killed. That's just the normal risk of life. Also, the inanimate TFs don't count as killing either, since the soul of the victims is still inside the object.
- Not bringing the dead back: Again, it isn't posible to bring the soul back into a dead body.
- Not wishing for more wishes or that the genie is bound to a master for an indefinite time. It's pretty selfexplanatory. (Ok, I already thought about loopholes here, like wishing that the genie is bound to me until I die and then wishing that I would never die. But either can the genie simply deny the second wish as it would violate this rule, or the genie can find another loophole. Being bound to statue can be quite an advantage for a genie, if the genie doesn't have to spent all time inside his vessel).
I just wonder what rules Martha should have invented. Jennifer proposed some rules, fav.me/d2j4w2b and Martha simply said yes, because she didn't know about the rules back them. Some of these rules are the same as the ones Sami told her about later. Some, like not changing history, simply aren't rules.
Or do you refer to another episode?
Loopholes are fun and pretty much a stample of any genie-related fiction, but... well, if everything runs on loopholes, it gets silly. Because it doesn't take much time nor effort to not only twist all possible wishes, but also spectaculary abuse power by role-lawyering. And it works both way - not only genies can do what they want, their masters or masters-to-be (enslaving looks very simple) can ask whatever cross their minds and get that if their wording is proper.
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