Comment on Distress in victory by chickentech
I just changed the background's perspective 
so hopefully the the perspective actually looks cohesive. I could actually use some honest feedback on the changes because I'm preparing this image for printing. Do you think the new perspective makes it look better and less like she's having an allergic reaction in her leg? Should I still try shrinking her leg? There's a link in the description to see the original image (the one you commented on) for comparison.
Your help would be much appreciated.
You've got a great gallery by the way.
so hopefully the the perspective actually looks cohesive. I could actually use some honest feedback on the changes because I'm preparing this image for printing. Do you think the new perspective makes it look better and less like she's having an allergic reaction in her leg? Should I still try shrinking her leg? There's a link in the description to see the original image (the one you commented on) for comparison.Your help would be much appreciated.
You've got a great gallery by the way.
The new perspective works much better, but the leg closest to the camera still doesn't seem to match that perspective. I think that the effect you are looking for is not the "fish-eye", but rather an extremely small focal length of the camera. Try tweaking something related to focal length in the camera of your 3Ds Max mock-up, maybe you'll find what you'll looking for.
But in any case, even if you found the settings under which the legs are projected in the same way, other details could still be ruining the perception of geometry and space. For instance, the front left hoof appears as if we are looking at it down from above. The way the shadow from her front right hoof lines up somehow seems to reinforce that way of perception of space, and makes it like she has a humongous oversized front left leg :/
Perhaps even more importantly, the scale of detail on the carpet stays exactly the same as we move from her front right hoof to the left hoof, while the hooves themselves change in size dramatically. This is probably what flattens the image the most.
Also the star-shaped gem seems to be slipping off the edge of the carpet. I understand that this effect would occur to some degree in an actual lens due to aberration or something along those lines that makes the the "fish-eye" perspective possible. But you might want to take an actual photograph of objects arranged in the same positions and see for yourself how that actually works in the real world.
I tried painting over your image to suggest how some of the stuff I mentioned might be corrected. Keep in mind that I'm still very much an amateur and may be completely wrong.
:origin()/pre12/e1ee/th/pre/f/2015/114/7/0/distress_in_victory_overpaint_4_by_hunternif-d8qwzyz.jpg)
Things to note in my overpaint:
1. The base of the front hoof if flattened, and stands firmly on the ground. The same goes for the 2 closest gems.
2. The rear right leg is moved further to the back. It can't be closer to the viewer than the front right leg, right?
3. The left shoulder is slightly bigger. This makes the change of size on the front left leg to be more gradual. But it still looks like too much to me :/
4. The front leg has higher contrast (darker shadows and brighter highlights), while the other legs are dimmed. This little trick makes the viewer perceive the front leg as being closer. I also added some reflected red light from the carpet to the front right leg.
5. The scale of detail on the carpet is much bigger in the foreground. What I roughly painted there is sort of out of focus, merely a suggestion, but you might actually have to paint some individual threads of the carpet. The size of the front hoof and its being in focus kind of dictates that :/ Good luck with that!
6. I'm not sure about this, but since the sun is essentially illuminating her hair from behind, the edges of her mane have a golden glow, while the rest of her hair is mostly in shadow. In fact, this should apply to the rest her body as well (coat is hairy too).
7. There's a clear highlight on the carpet from the sun that is shining through the hole in the back wall. I'm quite sure this lighting is still incorrect, and you should carefully consider where your light sources are and how they illuminate the room and especially the main character.
Finally, you might want to work on the wings and feathers. Here's a good example:
By the way, I do like your colors very much.
And thanks, I'm glad you like my gallery!
But in any case, even if you found the settings under which the legs are projected in the same way, other details could still be ruining the perception of geometry and space. For instance, the front left hoof appears as if we are looking at it down from above. The way the shadow from her front right hoof lines up somehow seems to reinforce that way of perception of space, and makes it like she has a humongous oversized front left leg :/
Perhaps even more importantly, the scale of detail on the carpet stays exactly the same as we move from her front right hoof to the left hoof, while the hooves themselves change in size dramatically. This is probably what flattens the image the most.
Also the star-shaped gem seems to be slipping off the edge of the carpet. I understand that this effect would occur to some degree in an actual lens due to aberration or something along those lines that makes the the "fish-eye" perspective possible. But you might want to take an actual photograph of objects arranged in the same positions and see for yourself how that actually works in the real world.
I tried painting over your image to suggest how some of the stuff I mentioned might be corrected. Keep in mind that I'm still very much an amateur and may be completely wrong.
Things to note in my overpaint:
1. The base of the front hoof if flattened, and stands firmly on the ground. The same goes for the 2 closest gems.
2. The rear right leg is moved further to the back. It can't be closer to the viewer than the front right leg, right?
3. The left shoulder is slightly bigger. This makes the change of size on the front left leg to be more gradual. But it still looks like too much to me :/
4. The front leg has higher contrast (darker shadows and brighter highlights), while the other legs are dimmed. This little trick makes the viewer perceive the front leg as being closer. I also added some reflected red light from the carpet to the front right leg.
5. The scale of detail on the carpet is much bigger in the foreground. What I roughly painted there is sort of out of focus, merely a suggestion, but you might actually have to paint some individual threads of the carpet. The size of the front hoof and its being in focus kind of dictates that :/ Good luck with that!
6. I'm not sure about this, but since the sun is essentially illuminating her hair from behind, the edges of her mane have a golden glow, while the rest of her hair is mostly in shadow. In fact, this should apply to the rest her body as well (coat is hairy too).
7. There's a clear highlight on the carpet from the sun that is shining through the hole in the back wall. I'm quite sure this lighting is still incorrect, and you should carefully consider where your light sources are and how they illuminate the room and especially the main character.
Finally, you might want to work on the wings and feathers. Here's a good example:
By the way, I do like your colors very much.
And thanks, I'm glad you like my gallery!
Wow, you went way above and beyond. Thank you so much! The people in this community continue to amaze me.
I agree with your edits and suggestions completely. I'm especially impressed by your suggestions on how to show more depth on her using differing contrast based on closeness to the camera, bounce light, hard highlights, and detail size. This is stuff I need to focus on in all future paintings. I've always had a hard time figuring how to do this right so you just helped me improve all future paintings considerably.
I'm going to have to take my time going through all of these fantastic suggestions and studying your changes to the painting. With what initially looked like relatively little modification you managed to make it look so much better. The perspective actually looks how I envisioned it but was never able to nail down. I was crazy to have tried making such a dramatic perspective without taking the time to really plan it out.
Some time in the next couple weeks I'm going to go and fix the painting with these suggestions so I can finally be content with it, and have it ready for printing. I seriously owe you one, thanks again.
One last thing, I'm sure this took you a significant amount of time to write and and paint, but would it be OK if I occasionally ask you for a brief critique if I'm struggling with a painting? It's hard finding people who can objectively critique and identify fundamental issues with a painting from my experience. And if there's anything I can do for you, by all means, send me a note or comment on my profile and I'll be happy to oblige.
I agree with your edits and suggestions completely. I'm especially impressed by your suggestions on how to show more depth on her using differing contrast based on closeness to the camera, bounce light, hard highlights, and detail size. This is stuff I need to focus on in all future paintings. I've always had a hard time figuring how to do this right so you just helped me improve all future paintings considerably.
I'm going to have to take my time going through all of these fantastic suggestions and studying your changes to the painting. With what initially looked like relatively little modification you managed to make it look so much better. The perspective actually looks how I envisioned it but was never able to nail down. I was crazy to have tried making such a dramatic perspective without taking the time to really plan it out.
Some time in the next couple weeks I'm going to go and fix the painting with these suggestions so I can finally be content with it, and have it ready for printing. I seriously owe you one, thanks again.
One last thing, I'm sure this took you a significant amount of time to write and and paint, but would it be OK if I occasionally ask you for a brief critique if I'm struggling with a painting? It's hard finding people who can objectively critique and identify fundamental issues with a painting from my experience. And if there's anything I can do for you, by all means, send me a note or comment on my profile and I'll be happy to oblige.
Hehe, I know, right ^^
I just love sharing knowledge. And it's so much easier to preach good practice to someone else without actually following it yourself :Ь So YES, I'd love to help you out when I can and share anything I can. Let's grow together to be better artists! But I must warn you again to take anything I say with a huge grain of salt, because I'm not a professional and I'm still learning some of the very basics myself.
Hey, I can totally relate to your desire to go forward with complex perspectives and lighting in spite of severe lack of experience. Aiming for the coolest composition possible, because nothing else would be worth your time, right?
And voila! here's another bit of advice, and one that I have been completely ignoring myself :Ь Get the fundamentals down before moving on to more advanced stuff! Applies to all fields besides art.
Also, there's no link to the old picture in the description. And yeah, you still might want to shrink her leg.
Oh, and here's something that you could do for me, for which I'll always be grateful. Whenever you stop by and have a moment of free time, drop a critical comment of any kind on any picture from my "featured" gallery (don't bother with other folders, the rest is horrible or incomplete). It's always difficult to look critically or gain new insight into your own work, at which you've already been staring for hours and days on end %)
I just love sharing knowledge. And it's so much easier to preach good practice to someone else without actually following it yourself :Ь So YES, I'd love to help you out when I can and share anything I can. Let's grow together to be better artists! But I must warn you again to take anything I say with a huge grain of salt, because I'm not a professional and I'm still learning some of the very basics myself.
Hey, I can totally relate to your desire to go forward with complex perspectives and lighting in spite of severe lack of experience. Aiming for the coolest composition possible, because nothing else would be worth your time, right?
And voila! here's another bit of advice, and one that I have been completely ignoring myself :Ь Get the fundamentals down before moving on to more advanced stuff! Applies to all fields besides art.
Also, there's no link to the old picture in the description. And yeah, you still might want to shrink her leg.
Oh, and here's something that you could do for me, for which I'll always be grateful. Whenever you stop by and have a moment of free time, drop a critical comment of any kind on any picture from my "featured" gallery (don't bother with other folders, the rest is horrible or incomplete). It's always difficult to look critically or gain new insight into your own work, at which you've already been staring for hours and days on end %)
Yeah, I know what you mean about preaching being easier than following. I know all the fundamentals and much of the advanced aspects of art, and I can identify them or the lack thereof in other peoples art. But when it comes to me making art I completely forget to utilize much of that knowledge, and become largely blind to issues with my art as a result of staring at it for hours on end (which upon further reading you seem to have mentioned above). I need to develop a reflex for it, that's the hard part.
Yes! Thank you! It'll be sooo nice to have someone to point out flaws in my art. I find some of the best people to get advice from are not professionals but fellow learners. You may be learning some basics yourself but that means you'll be looking for that stuff. It seems people are often afraid of giving bad advice, but most of the time advice is just pointing at some fundamental mistake to remind me to use knowledge I already have locked away in my mind.
That's some solid advice. I think I'll be doing a set of speed paintings once finals are over and focusing completely on reinforcing the basics. I've been having a pain getting down human anatomy, poses, and proportions. I bet improving on the fundamentals will help a lot with that.
sta.sh/0sfolmsli7r it was in the edit at the bottom of the desciription, the version without saliva is essentially the same image I had up before. I'll do some research on short focal length photography and perhaps fish-eye lens photography before I shrink her leg, mostly because in your edit it looks just fine being that large so I don't think I need to change it that much. But we'll see what real life test and research have to say about it.
Yep, will do. I'll be sure to drop a comment before the end of the night even. And I see you've already done that for me. I'll try and find some time during the week to leave some more comments. If we agree to occasionally critique each other's artwork, especially newer stuff, that should help us improve much faster.
Yes! Thank you! It'll be sooo nice to have someone to point out flaws in my art. I find some of the best people to get advice from are not professionals but fellow learners. You may be learning some basics yourself but that means you'll be looking for that stuff. It seems people are often afraid of giving bad advice, but most of the time advice is just pointing at some fundamental mistake to remind me to use knowledge I already have locked away in my mind.
That's some solid advice. I think I'll be doing a set of speed paintings once finals are over and focusing completely on reinforcing the basics. I've been having a pain getting down human anatomy, poses, and proportions. I bet improving on the fundamentals will help a lot with that.
sta.sh/0sfolmsli7r it was in the edit at the bottom of the desciription, the version without saliva is essentially the same image I had up before. I'll do some research on short focal length photography and perhaps fish-eye lens photography before I shrink her leg, mostly because in your edit it looks just fine being that large so I don't think I need to change it that much. But we'll see what real life test and research have to say about it.
Yep, will do. I'll be sure to drop a comment before the end of the night even. And I see you've already done that for me. I'll try and find some time during the week to leave some more comments. If we agree to occasionally critique each other's artwork, especially newer stuff, that should help us improve much faster.
Whoops, I assumed that the absence of saliva was the only point of the linked image, and completely failed to notice the change in perspective of the background.