Comment on Introducing Improved Collections by danlev
Comment History
The collections of people you watch remain in the Watch Feed because deactivation of this option affect only pieces which were added AFTER you decided to turn it off. In fact, based upon that I suppose that new collections (which you activated manually with "Watch collection" button) will appear in the Watch Feed after their owners will supply something NEW in them.
We could check this, actually. I added to watch one of your collections (Backgrounds). For now it doesn't display in my Watch Feed. Add something new there (anything - you can always delete it when the test will be finished) and let's observe the result.
We could check this, actually. I added to watch one of your collections (Backgrounds). For now it doesn't display in my Watch Feed. Add something new there (anything - you can always delete it when the test will be finished) and let's observe the result.
Oh, thanks for letting me know about that first part. That seems a little weird in action. If you guys are taking suggestions (and if it's possible) I would prefer it if the watchfeed was effected by all changes that I make to my Watch List. It would make for easier browsing IMO.
I added something to the backgrounds collection. Let me know if it shows up.
On that same line with my watchfeed not changing based on what I do AFTER things have already showed up:
Because the creator of this collection (that I DO want to see) hasn't added to it in the last few hours, and because I can still see a person that I watch's collections since it wasn't effected by my "unwatching" after the fact, I can't find the new collection that I want to watch since it's bogged down. (If you can understand that? I think I made it sound a little confusing
)
Hopefully that gives reason to my first line above about easier browsing^
I added something to the backgrounds collection. Let me know if it shows up.
On that same line with my watchfeed not changing based on what I do AFTER things have already showed up:
Because the creator of this collection (that I DO want to see) hasn't added to it in the last few hours, and because I can still see a person that I watch's collections since it wasn't effected by my "unwatching" after the fact, I can't find the new collection that I want to watch since it's bogged down. (If you can understand that? I think I made it sound a little confusing
)Hopefully that gives reason to my first line above about easier browsing^
The Watch Feed (along with all features from this update) is still in development so I think we'll see changes there soon. As for suggestions - you can post them here or here, if you wish so. Or wait until the next Site Update and post your suggestion in comments.
I added something to the backgrounds collection. Let me know if it shows up.Yeah, as I thought it appeared right away.
If you can understand that? I think I made it sound a little confusingThis behaviour (I mean the Watch Feed logic) is really a little bit... illogical? I mean that you expect system to do one thing and it does another. It's still raw for sure, but it's natural for the new things, actually - to be raw and imperfect.)
You are very knowledgeable about how things work, and I wonder if I could ask a couple quick questions here since they are somewhat related to this sub-thread topic.
When I used to receive RSS News Feeds from Google, there was no way to delete any of the ones I had already read so that I wouldn't have to come across the same ones later. They would just slowly be replaced by newer Feeds. The behavior of the RSS Feeds reminds me very much of the way the Watch Feed works on DA. That is, once the Feeds are received, you cannot delete items from those Feeds, at least from the Feeds themselves. In DA's favor, we can at least delete the incoming deviations via our Message Centers, which deletes them from the Watch Feeds also.
So, my questions to you are: Is there a relationship between the way DA's Feeds act and how RSS Feeds act? Do all "Feeds" share a common characteristic regarding deletions?
The biggest problem I have with DA's Collection Feeds is that they are, indeed, "Collection" feeds, rather than "Individual Deviation" feeds that happen to be gleaned from Collections. Consequently, many of those "Collections" seem to hang around forever as the artist on the other end adds an occasional favorite to those particular Collections. After awhile, I couldn't tell whether I had already viewed those Collections or not, and I didn't want to keep opening up those Collections only to determine that I had already seen everything in them, or everything except a single deviation). I've pretty much returned to looking at Collections via the main More-Like-This feature based on the large number of deviations I've faved in the past. And sometimes when I come across artwork from a new artist, I'll check out their Favorites/Collections at the same time I check out their Galleries. So I'm not really benefiting at all from DA's latest addition.
When I used to receive RSS News Feeds from Google, there was no way to delete any of the ones I had already read so that I wouldn't have to come across the same ones later. They would just slowly be replaced by newer Feeds. The behavior of the RSS Feeds reminds me very much of the way the Watch Feed works on DA. That is, once the Feeds are received, you cannot delete items from those Feeds, at least from the Feeds themselves. In DA's favor, we can at least delete the incoming deviations via our Message Centers, which deletes them from the Watch Feeds also.
So, my questions to you are: Is there a relationship between the way DA's Feeds act and how RSS Feeds act? Do all "Feeds" share a common characteristic regarding deletions?
The biggest problem I have with DA's Collection Feeds is that they are, indeed, "Collection" feeds, rather than "Individual Deviation" feeds that happen to be gleaned from Collections. Consequently, many of those "Collections" seem to hang around forever as the artist on the other end adds an occasional favorite to those particular Collections. After awhile, I couldn't tell whether I had already viewed those Collections or not, and I didn't want to keep opening up those Collections only to determine that I had already seen everything in them, or everything except a single deviation). I've pretty much returned to looking at Collections via the main More-Like-This feature based on the large number of deviations I've faved in the past. And sometimes when I come across artwork from a new artist, I'll check out their Favorites/Collections at the same time I check out their Galleries. So I'm not really benefiting at all from DA's latest addition.
Is there a relationship between the way DA's Feeds act and how RSS Feeds act?In fact, I don't completely understand what you mean by "relationship". RSS Feed originally is an XML-document (the collection of "code-blocks" looking like HTML but with differences). In other words per se it's just some particularly structured text, which could be somehow represented on page. The way it represents doesn't depend on it - it depends on program environment which is showing the resulted feed. Usually it's something based on frontend programming language (JavaScript, for example), which receives the XML, divides the blocks of data from it and puts them into HTML-tags (for example, DIVs), so in the upshot you can see the common list of updates.
Actually, I'm not sure how dA Feed is working since it's the internal process (whereas the process specified above is mostly external). Scripts could give an answer, but I feel too lazy to search the source.) I suppose that data gathering most likely takes place on server (backend programming), and then it forms some lists (like XML) and delivers it to JS (which is in global use here) - if so, then the process reminds the work with RSS, though it's not completely the same.
Do all "Feeds" share a common characteristic regarding deletions?Look. You receive the data made of blocks (text made of blocks, blocks containing pictures etc). Your task then is somehow represent them. It means that you can organize them, set up the styles for them (with CSS or JS), rearrange them, add the unique attributes etc. You can do with them almost everything, including deletion. In other words, it's not a problem of the Feed-concept if users can't remove items from the final list - most likely it means that someone who was in charge of list displaying just didn't realize the appropriate functions.
Thanks for your Reply! - I really appreciate the time you invested in putting together this detailed response to my questions. I suppose I was simply trying to understand why DA didn't put any customization options into the two new feeds they created for the site, leaving users with, for the most part, all-or-nothing packages. Thus, I had the hope that the method they used to create them just didn't allow for any customizations (that the deletion option wasn't available in "Feeds" in general) and that it was not that they could have provided them, but decided not to or, worse, didn't know how to. Your final sentence told me that it wasn't just a case of "couldn't."
Like you, I've been trying to help some of the DA members who commented on the articles and who didn't know how to deal with the new changes to everything that was familiar and comfortable to them and that was gone in an instant. As I do this, I am continually wondering why the programmers couldn't have made the processes easier or more customizable. For instance, I wish so much that users could simply select a page from the Sub-Navigation bar and, with a single click to a "set as default page" option, designate that page as their "default" page for deviantart.com logins and the "DA Logo/Name" button. Change your mind? Repeat the process on a different feature page. Having the "default" page fluctuate depending upon where you were before you were somewhere else has been a nightmare to describe. Using the DA button on the Navigation bar became a crap shoot for me, since I never remembered to return to my selected default page before moving on to other parts of the site--hmm, I wonder where I'll wind up this time when I click on DA? Browse? DD Page? Did the programmers think that users would visit only one of those 6 features and not go feature hopping? Could the programmers have given us the option to select a "static" default page? Or did they just decide for us that we didn't need one? (Strictly rhetorical questions!)
The programmers provided us with the means to add or remove all check marks for Collections at the same time. Could they not have provided the same capability to disable or enable the watching of our own Collection folders all at the same time? Currently they have to be edited one Collection folder at a time. When we watch artists' entire Collections via check marks on the Friends List, we have a record that we're watching those Collections. However, if we choose to watch only single Collections of artists, rather than all their Collections, we apparently have to track those on a piece of paper. Could the programmers not have provided us with a digital record of those watches? (More rhetorical questions)
The Stick Menu has options for direct links to Browse and Daily Deviations; but because of the fluctuating main-page default system, both of those links are redirected to whatever the page the DA button is currently defaulted to. Is there no way for the programmers to override those fluctuating defaults so that the Stick Menu options can work? Did they even take the Stick Menu into consideration when they made changes to the site? Could users have the option to have Collection deviations directed into the Message Center, instead of to the Watch Feed, so that the Collections deviations would appear in stacks, separate from the other deviations, for those who would prefer to manage all incoming materials within a single feature? Can the Status Update sections be separated from the rest of the Activity Feeds? (Even more rhetorical questions)
DA Administration has mostly been silent since the general rollout. Heidi provides some comments attached to her article, holding out some hope for improved features. Some DA members keep trying to help other struggling DA members. And we are all hoping that one day the anger will subside and that the members will once again find enjoyment on the site that offers so much to so many.
Thanks again for your response!
Like you, I've been trying to help some of the DA members who commented on the articles and who didn't know how to deal with the new changes to everything that was familiar and comfortable to them and that was gone in an instant. As I do this, I am continually wondering why the programmers couldn't have made the processes easier or more customizable. For instance, I wish so much that users could simply select a page from the Sub-Navigation bar and, with a single click to a "set as default page" option, designate that page as their "default" page for deviantart.com logins and the "DA Logo/Name" button. Change your mind? Repeat the process on a different feature page. Having the "default" page fluctuate depending upon where you were before you were somewhere else has been a nightmare to describe. Using the DA button on the Navigation bar became a crap shoot for me, since I never remembered to return to my selected default page before moving on to other parts of the site--hmm, I wonder where I'll wind up this time when I click on DA? Browse? DD Page? Did the programmers think that users would visit only one of those 6 features and not go feature hopping? Could the programmers have given us the option to select a "static" default page? Or did they just decide for us that we didn't need one? (Strictly rhetorical questions!)
The programmers provided us with the means to add or remove all check marks for Collections at the same time. Could they not have provided the same capability to disable or enable the watching of our own Collection folders all at the same time? Currently they have to be edited one Collection folder at a time. When we watch artists' entire Collections via check marks on the Friends List, we have a record that we're watching those Collections. However, if we choose to watch only single Collections of artists, rather than all their Collections, we apparently have to track those on a piece of paper. Could the programmers not have provided us with a digital record of those watches? (More rhetorical questions)
The Stick Menu has options for direct links to Browse and Daily Deviations; but because of the fluctuating main-page default system, both of those links are redirected to whatever the page the DA button is currently defaulted to. Is there no way for the programmers to override those fluctuating defaults so that the Stick Menu options can work? Did they even take the Stick Menu into consideration when they made changes to the site? Could users have the option to have Collection deviations directed into the Message Center, instead of to the Watch Feed, so that the Collections deviations would appear in stacks, separate from the other deviations, for those who would prefer to manage all incoming materials within a single feature? Can the Status Update sections be separated from the rest of the Activity Feeds? (Even more rhetorical questions)
DA Administration has mostly been silent since the general rollout. Heidi provides some comments attached to her article, holding out some hope for improved features. Some DA members keep trying to help other struggling DA members. And we are all hoping that one day the anger will subside and that the members will once again find enjoyment on the site that offers so much to so many.
Thanks again for your response!
why DA didn't put any customization options into the two new feeds they created for the siteMaybe because it's still in development?) dA is a kind of "permanently developing" resource, and if it releases some new feature it doesn't mean that the work on this feature is over.
Like you, I've been trying to help some of the DA members who commented on the articlesYeah, I observed that. You're pretty patient, you know.
I am continually wondering why the programmers couldn't have made the processes easier or more customizableThis eternal question. Because, on the one hand, they're... programmers?..) Often people, who deal with code, don't care about so-called "front" side. If you leave the majority of them alone and let them just write something, it most likely would work perfectly, but won't take into account the requirements of usability (though in recent years they prefer to work in contact with final user from the start). But on the other hand, early stages usually don't require the full functionality - you just build the whole structure, and then, when the main functions are adjusted, you start to add there all these "beautiful and cool things". For now we obviously are situated at the beggining of the modification process.
Could the programmers have given us the option to select a "static" default page?Actually, you're talking about the existing function. System memorizes which of these six pages you visited for the last time, so next time you click the dA logo it redirects you there you were.
Could they not have provided the same capability to disable or enable the watching of our own Collection folders all at the same time?I don't know why they organise things like that. For example the Tag Editor: it's obvious how it should look like, but they realized it the other way - like someone came to someone and said: "Hurry, we need something to edit the multiple tags and we need it just now!" And the second one quickly jotted down some script with approximate functionality without thinking how logical it is.
I suppose that in these cases (I mean the design of some things) they've got some considerations besides the usability and programming process - perhaps something related to marketing or management. Otherwise it's difficult to explain.
The Stick Menu has options for direct links to Browse and Daily Deviations; but because of the fluctuating main-page default system, both of those links are redirected to whatever the page the DA button is currently defaulted toEm... For me DD-link works as it should: redirects to DD-page, and the system remembers my visit just like I used the link on the front page. The same is for Journals-portal, for example, which redirects me to Browse - Journal portal page. But Browse Art link for sure is glitching. I guess it was missed somehow - just inform the Help Desk about it.
Could users have the option to have Collection deviations directed into the Message Center
Can the Status Update sections be separated from the rest of the Activity Feeds?These're for real the rhetorical ones.) Or at least the questions for the suggestions forum.
DA Administration has mostly been silent since the general rolloutAnd how would you react on their place? Sometimes all this emotional "feedback" reminds the mass hysteria. Herewith not everyone provides the grounds why they don't like the updates - the majority just screams "it's like facebook" or "why don't you listen". There're people in staff too, and they have their own hem of patience; in addition, staff is made of a few people, and the amount of complaints runs up to thousands.
we are all hoping that one day the anger will subside and that the members will once again find enjoyment on the siteIt's the seventh version of site. As the old residents say, every time the site changes, the situation repeats, so it's expected already - to receive something like that and then wait until they get used to it.
One last reply as I know you have lots to do putting out fires in the article comments.
- Re: But Browse Art link for sure is glitching. I guess it was missed somehow - just inform the Help Desk about it.
- Re: Could the programmers have given us the option to select a "static" default page? (Answer) Actually, you're talking about the existing function. System memorizes which of these six pages you visited for the last time, so next time you click the dA logo it redirects you there you were.
- DA Administration has mostly been silent since the general rollout. (Response) And how would you react on their place?
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No problem, I appreciate the helpful answers.
I really like the new features added to the collections so far anyhow
I really like the new features added to the collections so far anyhow