KoltirasRip's avatar
My story's still in its introductory phase (only 8 chapters, with a 9th coming out this or next week) so there really isn't much to market just yet.  I do have a FaceBook page, InkBlazer/MangaMagazine page, and a few other places where I post stuff, but I feel like I'm still not prepared to know when the time will be right to market, or even how to do it.  I have 40-100 readers on each place I post, and I'm sure there's some overlap.  I'm nervous that if I don't start marketing soon, there will be too much content for new people to want to get into it, but I don't think that I have anything TOO crazy to be worth marketing yet.  My story's an epic/oddessy, not a short cut-to-the-chase sort of vapid thing that has only 30 pages.  I have 27-45 pages PER CHAPTER and the whole thing is 3 full LotR-size books long, with 50+ chapters per book.  I put my heart and soul into the thing.  Full-color, very planned out, everything is scrutinized well in advance so NOTHING comes across like a deus ex machina, there's loads of character development...the whole thing...but...  I just fail so bad at advertising.  I don't know what to do.  I don't want to do the convention thing, which doesn't help...but sitting at a booth by myself would just be a nightmare, and knowing the rules a lot of conventions place on artist's alley tables makes it even worse.  If you get up to leave for even 15 minutes, you lose your booth.  I don't have anyone to watch the thing for me so I can pee or eat or sleep, y'know?  Plus I'm not exactly rich, so I can't print a library worth of books to sell at the con, or even get a bunch of art prints done to generate interest.

It's all so very strange to me, because I'm having such a hard time generating interest for my story, despite an overwhelming chunk of popularity when I did a doujinshi based on Bleach.  Most of the 800+ people who read it said it was better than the canon story, and lauded my storytelling ability, saying they would all follow me into whatever projects I did later because I had essentially proven myself as a competent storyteller...but almost none of them did.  Maybe 30 people.  

I just don't know what to do. 
Russell-LeCroy's avatar
Have you considered Parteon.com? :) It sounds like it might serve you well. If someone else has already recommended this I'm sorry for repeating. Normally I'd check but I'm a bit short on time right now to read all the replies. I do think it would be a good fit for you though. 
KoltirasRip's avatar
I've thought about Patreon, but I didn't think my cause was worthy enough (since patreon asks people to give money, and most of my readers seem to be too young to have their own bank accounts, unfortunately.)  It'd be nice though.
Russell-LeCroy's avatar
I understand. Your stuf can still be free though and those who can give will have a way. :) Something to think about. 
KoltirasRip's avatar
Is it like GoFundMe where if you don't reach a goal in a certain amount of time, you lose it?
Russell-LeCroy's avatar
Nope, you keep what is sent no matter what from what I understand. :D I don't have one myself yet but I have been researching it for a while and plan on setting up one next week myself. There's some great videos on the site explaining lots of details about how it works. 
KoltirasRip's avatar
Oh sweet!  Thanks for the info!
Russell-LeCroy's avatar
Sure thing, glad to help. :meow: 
UltimateFACE's avatar
holy wow you have a lot of material to be putting out there, for a comic, just saying! I've seen people really bigging up their webcomic when they only have something like 4 pages posted!!

I would love to give you awesome advice with marketing but I am nowhere near as popular as you, nor do I have as much material
All I would say-- I feel like it's not wrong for you to occasionally ask for features from people (politely obviously) if you haven't already tried that... and just generally interacting with other comic creators
and I'm sorry to hear about the fan-base shrinking once you started your original stuff- I can imagine that being a kick in the spleen

Once I get time to read your stuff I'll definitely give it a mention in a journal on my other account some time! (I mean like, I have a very small following but still)
KoltirasRip's avatar
Kick to the spleen XD  Yeah, pretty much.

I'm kinda bad on interacting with others if I know all I'm doing it for is to beg for mentions.  I've been trying to find other ways of getting my name out there without feeling like I'm pleading for attention.  I thought that once the story really got going (which it will start to do here with ch9 this/next week) it would basically advertise itself, because it'll have craziness going on, but with such a small pool of people to draw from, I've started getting worried.

I mean, in the end, it's not THAT big of a deal.  I love the story enough that I'd do it even if I only ever had the same number of readers as I do now, as one compliment can keep me motivated for the whole next update...but it'd be neat to have more people looking into it.  I spent 3 years working on that Bleach doujin SPECIFICALLY to get my art good enough that I wouldn't think I have to correct things every other month.  I restarted that doujin twice because of getting better at drawing.  So far, Eidolon's held up to my scrutiny, even though I've been at it for just over a year now.  Only a few things here and there that bother me...and that's just alteration in the character's designs as I've matured them with practice.  I can live with it.  I'm just glad I don't have any glaring anatomy fumbles like I used to.
UltimateFACE's avatar
Like honestly
I am so super impressed like
your art is rad
and
I am kinda still taken aback by how much you can get done in such a short space of time- really it's truly impressive
(Just thought I'd get that out of the way haha)

I am totally with you- feeling that the interactions are a bit fake?... I started trying to sort of just 'attention grab' a while ago- ended up making 2 really awesome friends. Which wasn't the plan but I won't complain- the two friends I inadvertently made are awesome and two of my best friends on the internet ahah
but honestly, just reading other people's webcomics and commenting and supporting them- it's more fulfilling and mutual support is sometimes a lot better than just 'fans'
in my experience anyway

I'm in the fumbling around, trying to figure out how to make comics and redoing stuff stage myself haha it feels wrong to try and put myself out there when I haven't got the opening bit as good as it should be.

I've been staring at this comment for ages I can't think of anything else important to say
but yeah
good luck (again) with stuff
KoltirasRip's avatar
Thanks so much *___*

But yeah, the 'forced' part makes me feel bad XD  I've tried reading other comics but then I get scared to comment, like it'll just be washed away in the endless flood of other comments that the author never sees.  So few comics catch me, and the few that do are already massively popular...I don't even know where to begin jumping into those frays, especially when the comments sections are snippets that don't allow signatures, so no one would ever know I'm doing a comic anyway unless I said so outright...and I know how much it drives people nuts to see other people use their comics as platforms to get attention, so I avoid it .______.
UltimateFACE's avatar
you're welcome UvU

I feel so silly sometimes
like recently I saw a thing of someone asking for feedback on their comic
so I sat down, read all of it and wrote notes on all the things that they could improve on; writing, lettering, pace, dialogue etc etc
then I wrote up this long explanation to the person
how sad it that? haha
I mean- half way through I asked myself 'am I doing this for attention or do I genuinely just want to help this person out??'
I think the real answer is both or maybe neither
I like thinking about stuff- and sometimes in helping other people- I help myself

I really went off on a tangent there
It is frustrating being in a sea of comments... People who are good but unpopular are super hard to find... for obvious reasons
I looked for comic artists like me through directory type things where you ask to be listed
sometimes you'll find a comic with kinda average art but AWESOME story though- but they're so hard to find because they just don't stand out as much

But yeah in a comment there is no guarantee anyone is going to click on you or even read your comment
it's like shooting into the darkness, you could shoot 50 comments and get no response, but then you could shoot 5 and get 100s of views
I tend not to comment on stuff unless I feel I have something marginally different to say
or if I just want to support the person- regardless of whether they reply to me or not

also, a lot of this 'be part of the community' stuff is super hard
you need to somehow infiltrate friendship groups
which is impossible
KoltirasRip's avatar
I know it :|  I've mostly given up the community interaction because there's just too much infantile garbage going on most of the time, and I don't really want to talk to those people anyway.  I have a guy going through (what remains on my DA of) my old doujin, and the ONLY thing he's commenting on...are the tits.  The boobs.  The breasticles.

It's like, 'hey, guy, there's a story here, too, not just tatas.'  I don't cater to audiences like that, but it seems like that's a huge chunk of the online community.  It's just discouraging.
RavynCrescent's avatar
It's alright! There are a lot of other members here who are marketing, and sharing their ideas. You can contact them and ask for assistance, or even create a journal here in the group asking for help/aid/advice.

I believe that you can start advertising now, it seems you have enough pages. I was told that it's possible to start after 10 pages, but having around 30 can make it so new readers get hooked!

I've done the convention thing for nearly 10 years now, and it's awesome, but, yeah, it takes practice. I've somehow learned how to go an entire day without using the bathroom, or eating, but I don't recommend it, it's not healthy. If you choose to do one, I suggest going in with someone else! Share a booth. It halves the cost, draws more people over, and both of you are able to take turns taking breaks. To sell at a convention, I'd suggest having a few copies of your comic, and other things... such as pinback buttons, necklaces, stickers, etc. especially fan art related items! Sell them for a profit, and include a business card linking to your comic online with every purchase. Also, walk around before the artist alley opens. Talk to other artists! Trade business cards, and even trade artwork, this helps you gain friends who help you out. Doing commissions, selling additional items, handing out cards, it all helps :) I'd say print out flyers for the comic, showing the art and the skill level in it, as well as the detail, and pass those out. Any extras? Drop them off at a local comic book store!

You always lose fans when you switch from a fan media, to an original. It just happens, but don't fret! I was in the same boat, but you CAN draw back the crowd! Fan material is always very popular... often ridiculously so, but you can use that to your advantage. I've seen people at conventions drawing fanart... on flyers. The back of the flyer told all about their original character story. It was brilliant, people purchase the art because they loved it, so they made back the cost of the flyer being printed, and made a profit, while also ensuring no one tossed it out, and would learn about the story.

You can do it! There are lots of members here who will help!
KoltirasRip's avatar
I couldn't imagine having enough stuff at 10-30 pages to advertize already XD  I'm almost at 300 and I still don't feel ready.  Maybe I'm just too nervous or something.

The suggestions for the convention scene sound like a good idea.  I just need to get out there.  I haven't gone to a con in years, svee DragonCon this past year, and I regretted that a lot @_@

Thanks!  I'll look into what others are saying.
RavynCrescent's avatar
Hahaha, yeah, I am that way! Either I get too excited, or I'm like "no, not yet! It's not at the best part yet!"

You may be too nervous, but, if I were you? I'd start marketing it.
nanaya-chan's avatar
I'm sure the huge interest toward your doujinshi and not your own story has the difference that fans who liked your Bleach like also the original. And when they say they like your story telling ability they really like how you use their favorite characters to make new schenes. I'm sure they won't mean that you aren't gifted but they can't see the difference between original Bleach things&their being fans of original and your doings. Also the original Bleach is marketed and well-known already what has boost your doujnshi when in other hand your own story isn't marketed that much. Also it could be just bad luck that the fans who liked doujinshi aren't just interested eg. the genre of your story and that's why about 30 has remained. I recommend you to think atleast: does your own story has something similar/opposite with the doujinshi Bleach? Answer could give you something to think. :) I hope this helped you even little bit.
KoltirasRip's avatar
I understand the popularity of Bleach being a benefit already, but I mean, I tried to get to know the people who read my doujin.  I'd comment/reply anytime I could, so folks were talking actually to me and not just at my work.  At least, that's how it felt for the longest time.  Guess I was wrong.

And nah, my story isn't so much the opposite of Bleach as it is a different realm of storytelling entirely.  It's catered to adult readers (not because of porn or anything, but like Ghost in the Shell, where it's more intrigue, political stuff with action thrown in, and giant robots, and awesome technology here and there) whereas Bleach is geared towards readers age 13 and under...kids, essentially, who won't notice how bad it is because they're still too young to know what REAL stories are like.  It's also scifi/fantasy/political intrigue stuff whereas Bleach is straight-up action/power-ups/magic powers.

Thanks for the feedback~  
nanaya-chan's avatar
This would be easier to figure out if I could see all of your works and how you have advertised them (and when)...
Hmm if you are sure about that the people knew what they were talking about then I guess it could be just bad luck or the lack of advertisement. But in the end I guess more advertising in right places can boost it and people will know more of your works :) So keep it up!
No problem! ;) This is related to my daily job so I was interested.
KoltirasRip's avatar
All of the links to the places I post are on my DevID under where it says EIDOLON.  I try to only post samples/teasers on my main account because I'm not a fan of the fave notifications that DA won't let me opt out of.  I prefer comments.  So, :iconeidoloneternity: is the DA account where I post stuff on this site.  It keeps everything neat and tidy anyhow, so folks don't have to worry about seeing unrelated or unfinished stuff if they watch it.  (DA's kind of tedious though, so I never went back to add the full-color alterations I'd done to the original few chapters that were black/white/sepia.)

Up until now, I've been nervous about advertising.  I've tried posting things here and there on tumblr, but I haven't gotten a single note or repost on anything there so I've gotten disheartened.  I've tried to join a few comic communities on DA, but they all support stories that are so completely different from what I do (mostly short stories, or things that are extremely novice/beginners) that I don't feel like I fit in and the people who participate don't read my work.  I worry that I come across as aggressive (a desperate attempt to force myself to participate so people don't think I'm begging when I ask for feedback?) so I stopped posting in those places.  I used to post on the MangaMagazine forums too, but stopped after they did their big upgrade to InkBlazers because it wasn't getting me anywhere anyway.

My comic itself, I think is really good, but I'm certain that every author thinks that of their own work.  I just...I dunno, I guess I'm just a little discouraged because I didn't think it would be so hard to find readers?  I didn't have to do anything to get people to find my Bleach story.  To this day, I still don't know how anyone finds the thing, and they still do despite my having stopped it over a year ago in favor of Eidolon.  To me, Eidolon is a thousand times better than any BS shounen manga out there, from the character development, imagery, the presence of backgrounds, the thought that goes into the plot...but because I can't get it out to the world in a way that actually gets peoples' attention, I just sit here, basically drawing my comic for me, my mom, and maybe 10 other people who actively read it.  I don't plan on quitting because of it, but it would be a little more rewarding to have more than 5 people commenting on it =/
nanaya-chan's avatar
Yeah, I understand. Fear of being too aggressive/unrelated is very normal feeling (even I do feel so all the time) but it will get easier when the time moves forward and you keep trying. For getting unbiased feedback it would be good to find sites like www.conceptart.org/forums/ (unfortunately conseptart isn't place for manga/anime style). DA isn't the best place to find good feedback but to get people know your artworks.
For adverstising I recommend that you study it better (from eg. advertising books, marketing etc.) or if you have money to hire somebody better suited to marketing. Also checking what other people have done as marketing is good idea. I assume you don't live in Japan (like I don't) so you don't have the option as japanese people have to get the manga published and marketed through some company specialised to manga. But internet is full of web publishers what could be helpful. That way you can keep making your manga and somebody else will help you with your marketing.
If you plan to make website for you you could check better how people end up to your page to read your manga and how long they will be looking it. (free program: google advertisement) Those kind of infos are good as gold.
KoltirasRip's avatar
That's the thing that's stumping me.  All the really popular comics I've seen, have all just (for lack of better terms) magically gotten popular without having to do anything.  Half of those stories aren't even that good, but somehow, it caught on with people and now there's thousands of weekly readers.  Now they advertize themselves just by virtue of existing.  The best bump I ever got was when my story was trending for a week on MangaMagazine and I got 70-something readers from it, but I haven't trended since (I'm not sure what their algorithm is, but I think it had more to do with my story only being 2 chapters long at the time than anything else.)

I'll look into setting up a website.  It's been a while since I had one, but maybe it's gotten easier since then.

On another note though, what exactly about my art makes it look like manga, specifically?  It's not oriented right-to-left, I draw a full eye with the pink bit by the nose (and they're normal size, not HUEG LEIK XBOX.)  Granted, my only experience with non-manga has been Marvel/DC comics, and everything they draw looks exactly the same (like, you could take every character, line them up, shave their heads, and not one of them would look different from another, save gender and skin color) but I really don't know what makes my story look particularly like manga.  I've been told my art looks like Bleach's, but I've tried really hard to avoid that...  I've just attributed it to folks not really knowing what they're talking about, since people think my main female protagonist looks like Korra from Avatar (even though they look nothing alike, aside from being a young-adult human female with non-pale skin.)
nanaya-chan's avatar
Good luck can happen but there's always something that what makes it happen, at least right timing. Eg. now vampire and other classic monsters are popular (at least in Finland) so now is good time to publish stuff with those things.

Well okay I was randomly using manga and comic words when not meaning particulary anything but referring to one of your pages: koltirasrip.deviantart.com/art… Your style is very manga like. Hmm.. how to describe (in english)... at least your characters' has very "long" structure with minimal detail (eg. not much muscles detailed), nose area is long, eyes are long to sideways and quite big, headshape is very sharp... Yeah, I see why people think they remind them Bleach. Your linedrawing style is quite same looking. Especially how you draw your faces. But your drawing style is more western-like. I haven't read Bleach and still I can see it too. If you don't want to look anime/manga like then you have long way to go to study more realistic/semi-realistic human shape but if you like to look less Bleach like then put your drawing and Bleach picture near each other and try to look every line and shape how they look similar together. Even better if you have lightbox and put your face and Bleach face top of each other and see through how close they are.
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