Comment on PC-98 Isn't Canon? by FullHitPoints
I don't think you even understand what exactly a tank is. It's as mechanical as anything else the kappas build.
Tanks, these days, have computers and electronic devices. But even if we assume the kappas are just buildings first gen. tanks, it still means they are advancing technologically and will, eventually, manage to build new gen. tanks that DOES include electronic and stuff.
One thing you seem to be forgetting is that Kanako was trying to bring technological advances to Gensokyo by having Utsuho eat the Yatagarasu and create an energy source through nuclear fusion. Granted, that didn't really work out too well since Utusho kinda went mad with power (edit: Looks like there's actually a nuclear reactor underground by the time the events of Hisoutensoku happen), but even so, technology has a way of getting through the border, as with the Game Boy that FullHitPoints mentioned, but also TVs and cell phones, which Yukari et al. use to monitor and communicate with Reimu while she's underground.
All right, *ahem*:
1. Kanako is a bitch
2. Yatagarasu? Energy source? I don't see what a God and mystic energy as anything to do with sci-fi. Just because it's called Nuclear fusion doesn't mean it's science. That phenomenon was always a reality. Albert Einstein didn't invented it, he found out how it works, that's all.
3. Many objects gets through the border when they are forgotten long enough, including tech devices. This doesn't mean the gensokyo folks knows how to use it. There's no way any one could turn on the TV as there is no electric circuit. The cell phone can't work as there is no signal. The Game Boy might work if there is still battery on it, but well... Rinnosuke doesn't want to try as he feared it might cause the end of the world, lol. Anyways, I think those items are there to act as cameos to real life, more then to build up a major change in gensokyo's life style.
4. en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterr…
I fail to see how this proves anything. All I see is a drunk Suika who's been randomly given a tv and a cell phone by Yukari... She doesn't even know what it is, nor how it works.
The communication? It is clearly stated, right in this very same page, that Yukari used Ying-yang orbs to talk to Reimu. Not cell phones, Ying-Yang orbs. So please, take my advise, double-check your sources »before« arguing someone.(-_-);
1. Kanako is a bitch
2. Yatagarasu? Energy source? I don't see what a God and mystic energy as anything to do with sci-fi. Just because it's called Nuclear fusion doesn't mean it's science. That phenomenon was always a reality. Albert Einstein didn't invented it, he found out how it works, that's all.
3. Many objects gets through the border when they are forgotten long enough, including tech devices. This doesn't mean the gensokyo folks knows how to use it. There's no way any one could turn on the TV as there is no electric circuit. The cell phone can't work as there is no signal. The Game Boy might work if there is still battery on it, but well... Rinnosuke doesn't want to try as he feared it might cause the end of the world, lol. Anyways, I think those items are there to act as cameos to real life, more then to build up a major change in gensokyo's life style.
4. en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterr…
I fail to see how this proves anything. All I see is a drunk Suika who's been randomly given a tv and a cell phone by Yukari... She doesn't even know what it is, nor how it works.
The communication? It is clearly stated, right in this very same page, that Yukari used Ying-yang orbs to talk to Reimu. Not cell phones, Ying-Yang orbs. So please, take my advise, double-check your sources »before« arguing someone.(-_-);
You do realize that technology from the outside world leaks into Gensokyo all the time, right? For instance, Rinnosuke has a Game Boy.
There are, in fact, a few items kept deep inside the store that I’m not interested in selling. Some items are not for sale because I am personally interested in them. It’s true that some of these are bothersome things that would only take up space in the shop. However, I consider all of them to have value, but more so than my common wares. It just so happens that no one willing to pay a price corresponding to their worth has appeared. But among them there is an item that’s lately been bothering me terribly. And it’s worse than usual, because I can’t really ask anyone’s advice regarding this item. It’s a grey box, small enough to be held in the hands, made of... plastic, I believe it was called? As I was saying, it’s a box made from a material neither metal nor stone. Items made of this material have been extremely numerous lately. On top of that, this one has several differently-shaped buttons and switches on it. However, even if I push them, nothing happens. Insofar there’s nothing particularly ominous about it. However, this item’s “utility” is very unsettling. Yes, my ability permits me to “determine an item’s utility”. That’s why I am the only one that gets this uneasy feeling. And it’s this feeling that prevents me from selling this item.
It had black, cheap-looking buttons, and some small openings on its back and sides. But its most characteristic feature was the small window just above some buttons, that would neither open nor shut. If you stared for too long at that window, you would almost feel like you could get sucked into it. It was made of a strange artificial material.Secondly, just because Rika has a tank, doesn't exactly mean it's powered by electronics. Its functionality could be purely mechanical, much like trains in the 1800's. It's actually more realistic than Nitori having a helicopter back-pack that fires rockets.
Rino has techs, but he doesn't know how to use them, so it's ok. Also, Rika's tank needs fuel. I've never heard before that there's petrol collect in gensokyo, so does that mean her tank is powered by magic? If so, I'm buying that too.
The thing is this: I don't want Touhou, as a hole, to become a weird Magical/Science-fiction crossover like Final Fantasy. Touhou needs to keep it's ancient Japanese life style and, to me, bring it technology will just ruin just what makes it great.
The thing is this: I don't want Touhou, as a hole, to become a weird Magical/Science-fiction crossover like Final Fantasy. Touhou needs to keep it's ancient Japanese life style and, to me, bring it technology will just ruin just what makes it great.
I do not know what powers Rika's tank, but it could also be something like coal or steam, which powered a lot of machinery back in the day. At any rate, the fact that Rika has a tank doesn't mean that PC-98 isn't/shouldn't be canon.
But let's play Devil's Advocate for a moment and assume that PC-98 isn't canon, simply because of Rika's tank. How exactly does that disprove the points that were made in this comic? How is Yuuka able to recall a conversation she had with Marisa years ago if said conversation never happened? Where did Alice's grimoire come from? Who was the "evil spirit" that took over Reimu's shrine? If PC-98 isn't the answer, then what is?
But let's play Devil's Advocate for a moment and assume that PC-98 isn't canon, simply because of Rika's tank. How exactly does that disprove the points that were made in this comic? How is Yuuka able to recall a conversation she had with Marisa years ago if said conversation never happened? Where did Alice's grimoire come from? Who was the "evil spirit" that took over Reimu's shrine? If PC-98 isn't the answer, then what is?
TBH, I wasn't going fully serious with this comment and I'm not saying that just because I don't like Rika's tank means we should wipe out the entire PC-98 area.
To me, the PC-98 area is not fully canon, but almost. This is my very personal point of view, but here's what I think: The events that occurred chronologically before the Vampire Incident are not exactly, but very close to, what happened in the PC-98 canon. This way, we can perfectly use th01~05 as references to the windows games.
However, there are some details that really bugs me from believing that the old school games are totally canon to the rest of the series. Rika's tank aside (that one was just an eruption of my feelings), I have some trouble with Yumemi. We're talking here about a character that supposedly came from the outside world... in a... space hypervessel... and uses some device that somehow collects data about magic.
Wait, wait, wait... I though the outside world was suppose to be OUR world, with OUR tech level. Unless th03 happens far in the future, I fail to see how such scenario fits in today's Touhou to begin with. But since Reimu haven't yet invented the spellcard rule in this game, then~... it doesn't fit. Like I said, I don't mind saying that modern Touhou have major links with past Touhou, FullHitPoints showed-up pretty good examples, but to say it's totally canon? Mmm... I'm not pretty sure.
Or, maybe you have an explanation for Yumemi. I'd be very glad of it, actually. ^-^;
To me, the PC-98 area is not fully canon, but almost. This is my very personal point of view, but here's what I think: The events that occurred chronologically before the Vampire Incident are not exactly, but very close to, what happened in the PC-98 canon. This way, we can perfectly use th01~05 as references to the windows games.
However, there are some details that really bugs me from believing that the old school games are totally canon to the rest of the series. Rika's tank aside (that one was just an eruption of my feelings), I have some trouble with Yumemi. We're talking here about a character that supposedly came from the outside world... in a... space hypervessel... and uses some device that somehow collects data about magic.
Wait, wait, wait... I though the outside world was suppose to be OUR world, with OUR tech level. Unless th03 happens far in the future, I fail to see how such scenario fits in today's Touhou to begin with. But since Reimu haven't yet invented the spellcard rule in this game, then~... it doesn't fit. Like I said, I don't mind saying that modern Touhou have major links with past Touhou, FullHitPoints showed-up pretty good examples, but to say it's totally canon? Mmm... I'm not pretty sure.
Or, maybe you have an explanation for Yumemi. I'd be very glad of it, actually. ^-^;
To me, the PC-98 area is not fully canon, but almost. This is my very personal point of view, but here's what I think: The events that occurred chronologically before the Vampire Incident are not exactly, but very close to, what happened in the PC-98 canon. This way, we can perfectly use th01~05 as references to the windows games.This sounds extremely similar to DeityDiz93's argument that the PC-98 canon has been "retooled" to fit within Modern standards of story-telling.
As for Yumemi and the rest of Phantasmagoria of Dimensional Dream, it has been speculated that the Probability Space Hypervessel is actually a time machine. There are a few hints lying around the dialogue that would confirm this theory, so it's not totally out of the question.
Like I said, I don't mind saying that modern Touhou have major links with past Touhou, FullHitPoints showed-up pretty good examples, but to say it's totally canon? Mmm... I'm not pretty sure.Why exactly are you referring to me in the third person?
This sounds extremely similar to DeityDiz93's argument that the PC-98 canon has been "retooled" to fit within Modern standards of story-telling.
Yeah, well, let's say I agree with him. I think there's a reason why ZUN is so reticent to declare the PC-98 era canon. What is that reason? idk. But, I prefer to keep my distance with the retro era and only uses it as a model for the real pre-th06 backstory.As for Yumemi and the rest of Phantasmagoria of Dimensional Dream, it has been speculated that the Probability Space Hypervessel is actually a time machine.
Thanks for the precision. ^-^ Though I would've prefer some "solid proofs" rather than "speculations", but oh well. (Why do you use a time machine to go in Gensokyo?... Does that mean it no longer exists in the future? ;o_0)
Why exactly are you referring to me in the third person?
By the love of all Gibus engineers, I didn't realized it was you. XD Go me!!!