what?
I don't care that you are a nerd, I'm one to.
now I don't know if you meant that comment to be as rude as it sounded and I give props to Raven for being nice, but wow dude.
"Wow, this was cool! ... kind of." ...I would of stopped reading your comment there.
I'm not being bias because I consider Raven a friend, but as an artist myself.
my issue is (and I really don't want to come off as rude) that someone who doesn't even have art of their own posted critiqued someone else's hard work. Raven works hard on these comics.
another unspoken rule is that you don't critique a piece unless they ask for it. If she wanted a critique she would of asked. even if you had good intentions it came off as rude.
I don't care that you are a nerd, I'm one to.
now I don't know if you meant that comment to be as rude as it sounded and I give props to Raven for being nice, but wow dude.
"Wow, this was cool! ... kind of." ...I would of stopped reading your comment there.
I'm not being bias because I consider Raven a friend, but as an artist myself.
my issue is (and I really don't want to come off as rude) that someone who doesn't even have art of their own posted critiqued someone else's hard work. Raven works hard on these comics.
another unspoken rule is that you don't critique a piece unless they ask for it. If she wanted a critique she would of asked. even if you had good intentions it came off as rude.
Oh, it did?
Then I'm really sorry! I didn't mean it that way!
I thought about the situation as a whole, with Ravenfrost fighting her fathers murderer after he teased her in public. Furthermore it was at a gathering!
I mean like, would the Erin's have done this?
I thought it was cool, to have a fight scene, but at the same time it was weird, concerning it's paricipants and it's outcome.
And that was what I meant while writing the comment.
The comment wasn't about the art or the work she had with it at all! I admire Raven's skills and the time she and others spend with working on things to publish in the internet, knowing I could never do that. (I even wrote it: "I know drawing these is very difficult!")
It was only about the situation in the comic! It was kind of a misunderstanding, because my intention wasn't that clear my writing.
(Just like with you, before. I thought your ".." would be about me nerding about the scratches, since some people are annoyed by questions like that. So I responded as if. :\ )
But generally, to me critique is only bad if it comes along with ranting or offences. Like: "I hate you and this sh** because the main char is black! Desubscribe!"
My "critique" was only a question about something I didn't understand. And I accepted her answer directly after she explained it to me!
If you don't accept any critique at all you won't ever hear something you could do any better the next time, won't you?
So, to Raven, if you ever read this:
Sorry, I didn't mean it like it might have sounded, I love your work and if it ever happens again, don't behave like you would feel fine with it, tell me!
I'm still learning english (I'm from Germany
) so I may write things without being aware of it's possible meanings!
Then I'm really sorry! I didn't mean it that way!
I thought about the situation as a whole, with Ravenfrost fighting her fathers murderer after he teased her in public. Furthermore it was at a gathering!
I mean like, would the Erin's have done this?
I thought it was cool, to have a fight scene, but at the same time it was weird, concerning it's paricipants and it's outcome.
And that was what I meant while writing the comment.
The comment wasn't about the art or the work she had with it at all! I admire Raven's skills and the time she and others spend with working on things to publish in the internet, knowing I could never do that. (I even wrote it: "I know drawing these is very difficult!")
It was only about the situation in the comic! It was kind of a misunderstanding, because my intention wasn't that clear my writing.
(Just like with you, before. I thought your ".." would be about me nerding about the scratches, since some people are annoyed by questions like that. So I responded as if. :\ )
But generally, to me critique is only bad if it comes along with ranting or offences. Like: "I hate you and this sh** because the main char is black! Desubscribe!"
My "critique" was only a question about something I didn't understand. And I accepted her answer directly after she explained it to me!
If you don't accept any critique at all you won't ever hear something you could do any better the next time, won't you?
So, to Raven, if you ever read this:
Sorry, I didn't mean it like it might have sounded, I love your work and if it ever happens again, don't behave like you would feel fine with it, tell me!
I'm still learning english (I'm from Germany
) so I may write things without being aware of it's possible meanings!I get protective of other peoples art, so I might of read it the wrong way.
its just there are asses out there who love to put down others art. I have had experiences where those people have hurt my friends deeply.
I'm glad you aren't an ass and just a genuine commenter : )
its just there are asses out there who love to put down others art. I have had experiences where those people have hurt my friends deeply.
I'm glad you aren't an ass and just a genuine commenter : )
hehe... xD
Thank you for understanding my point.
(How's your point of view about my point of critic as a way to become better?)
Thank you for understanding my point.
(How's your point of view about my point of critic as a way to become better?)
(I'm just going to replay what have learned in my critique lessons)
first most I would check what they want to have critiqued.
For a critique you have to take in account of style. If the person has a certain style correct anatomy can go out the window, (for example chibi-ish art styles, cartoon and such) correct anatomy does not always apply, and with such styles you have to take in what they are trying to go for.
if the artist is going for semi-realism and are pushing over to the more cartoony side point out to them what makes it look more like a cartoon so they can approve on a specific area.
it is also good to point out what they are doing right. it helps the artist know what to keep and what to fix.
my personal belief is that the best kind of critique points out what you do right and wrong.
In art there technically is no right or wrong in drawing. art is about interpretation and how you want to express it. That's why you have to take their style into mind.
structure a critique as if you would structure a paper.
0. know if the artist want a critique, some really dont
1. tell the artist what works and what they should keep doing.
2. tell them what doesn't work for what they are going for.
3. possible ways to help improve the artist (with this step it is preferred that you be at the same lvl as the artist or higher. but if you know what you are talking about go for it)
there is more but that is basically it.
first most I would check what they want to have critiqued.
For a critique you have to take in account of style. If the person has a certain style correct anatomy can go out the window, (for example chibi-ish art styles, cartoon and such) correct anatomy does not always apply, and with such styles you have to take in what they are trying to go for.
if the artist is going for semi-realism and are pushing over to the more cartoony side point out to them what makes it look more like a cartoon so they can approve on a specific area.
it is also good to point out what they are doing right. it helps the artist know what to keep and what to fix.
my personal belief is that the best kind of critique points out what you do right and wrong.
In art there technically is no right or wrong in drawing. art is about interpretation and how you want to express it. That's why you have to take their style into mind.
structure a critique as if you would structure a paper.
0. know if the artist want a critique, some really dont
1. tell the artist what works and what they should keep doing.
2. tell them what doesn't work for what they are going for.
3. possible ways to help improve the artist (with this step it is preferred that you be at the same lvl as the artist or higher. but if you know what you are talking about go for it)
there is more but that is basically it.
Hmmm... Interesting point. (You've had critique lessons?!? 0.o )
I get your point about the artists intention and stuff, but this wasn't the problem here, since it was only a matter of logic timing (the scratches were there, while he just moved his paw towards her muzzle, what made no sense) and there were only 3 white stripes in the air that confused me.
(And she even agreed, it didn't look as it should have.)
But I think the artist can already see what is great and what's not, when I say something like "the whole page is great, beside the little thing in panel 3" To me, that should explain it!
If I'd write something like "I think your cats designs are great, the backgrunds are awesome, as always, and I really liked her smile over there and [...] Keep doing that!
But..." about an average page with nothing really special about it, beside one thing that annoys/confuses me, what would you as the artist think? It would be like "Dude, come to your point!"
And I, as an result-oriented writer (I'm a nerd, I'm allowed to use words like these! ^^) prefer to write short things that show what I mean. And this would be: "Wow, this was cool! [...] But I don't really get your physics!"
{I like arguing with others! }
I get your point about the artists intention and stuff, but this wasn't the problem here, since it was only a matter of logic timing (the scratches were there, while he just moved his paw towards her muzzle, what made no sense) and there were only 3 white stripes in the air that confused me.
(And she even agreed, it didn't look as it should have.)
But I think the artist can already see what is great and what's not, when I say something like "the whole page is great, beside the little thing in panel 3" To me, that should explain it!
If I'd write something like "I think your cats designs are great, the backgrunds are awesome, as always, and I really liked her smile over there and [...] Keep doing that!
But..." about an average page with nothing really special about it, beside one thing that annoys/confuses me, what would you as the artist think? It would be like "Dude, come to your point!"And I, as an result-oriented writer (I'm a nerd, I'm allowed to use words like these! ^^) prefer to write short things that show what I mean. And this would be: "Wow, this was cool! [...] But I don't really get your physics!"
{I like arguing with others!
}yes I'm a trained critique (I hate saying that lol)
I'm not telling you to complement the artist. the critique is invalid if you blindly complement.
trust me as an artist myself here, if someone critiques your art and tells you just negatives the artist will take that to mind and think none of what they did worked.
the WORST critique is one who just focuses on negativity, that like a parent that does nothing but discipline their child and never rewards them for what they do good. you DO NOT learn that way.
telling an artist what they do right AND wrong is the biggest help.
and NO not all artist can see what they do right. Most artist doubt themselves. and when some in individual comes along and drops a purely negative critique its kills them. One of my closest friends was an amazing artist but all she got was negative critiques (the critiques where trying to help but they did a horrible job) she has stopped posting art and dropped out of art college.
If you are going to leave a critique you should try to make it as detailed as you can.leaving --> "Wow, this was cool! [...] But I don't really get your physics!" does not help an artist at all. how where the physics bad? what can they do better? why did they draw them that way? what was the idea they where going for? am I as a critique looking at this the right way? those are just some of the questions you have to ask.
as a critique you HAVE A RESPOSIBILITY to the artist to leave a well thought out and detailed critique. Essentially YOU as the critique will be what helps them learn. if you leave a shobby critique like "this was good, didn't like this" and end it without a what, when, where, and why you aren't helping and shouldn't of waited your time.
I'm not telling you to complement the artist. the critique is invalid if you blindly complement.
trust me as an artist myself here, if someone critiques your art and tells you just negatives the artist will take that to mind and think none of what they did worked.
the WORST critique is one who just focuses on negativity, that like a parent that does nothing but discipline their child and never rewards them for what they do good. you DO NOT learn that way.
telling an artist what they do right AND wrong is the biggest help.
and NO not all artist can see what they do right. Most artist doubt themselves. and when some in individual comes along and drops a purely negative critique its kills them. One of my closest friends was an amazing artist but all she got was negative critiques (the critiques where trying to help but they did a horrible job) she has stopped posting art and dropped out of art college.
If you are going to leave a critique you should try to make it as detailed as you can.leaving --> "Wow, this was cool! [...] But I don't really get your physics!" does not help an artist at all. how where the physics bad? what can they do better? why did they draw them that way? what was the idea they where going for? am I as a critique looking at this the right way? those are just some of the questions you have to ask.
as a critique you HAVE A RESPOSIBILITY to the artist to leave a well thought out and detailed critique. Essentially YOU as the critique will be what helps them learn. if you leave a shobby critique like "this was good, didn't like this" and end it without a what, when, where, and why you aren't helping and shouldn't of waited your time.
Okay, then I need to apologize and I feel sorry for your friend!
I know, that I have a responsibility towards the artist, and that hate Mails can have huge impacts on them. I've already Seen it myself.
But on the other Hand, this isn't just the commenters flaw Most of the time!
I've either Seen other examples where it was really Bad with Ranting and so on, but then the Artist said something about how he feels and what he thinks of all the critique!
And the comments really got better!
Furthermore, when he Wrote things like "I'm Not really pleased with how this looks like" in the description After that, the People in the comments Reassured him that it'd Look great!
So the Artist also has a responsibility towards the commenters, to make sure they know how to react, via Journals, etc. since otherwise we can't Know exactly how the Artist feels about certain things!
I don't want to say it was your Friends fault that she had to give up, but did she Tell them about it, before she stopped?
If they only failed in helping her, with a good intention, a dialogue might have been a soloution!
(I like this discussion very much because each of us has a view from one of the two sides! )
But, furthermore, you've taken and altered my point!
I didn't ever say you should only write what's bad if you have an issue! I suggested you should say: "Everything is good/works, besides..."
This is a different case, as the Artist can Tell what's good by taking the whole page and removing the mentioned parts.
To take your example:
I think of parents that take the Kids certificate and Tell him: "Your Grades are all good so far, here you have 2$, but you'll have to work harder at maths or I'll withdraw your computer!"
See my Point?
And about the where, when and who?
If you scroll up again to my Original comment, you'll See that I've done exactly that! I've Said that Bearfangs paw movement doesn't fit because it should have already completed for the wounds to fit.
(I only didn't requote the whole commentin the Last one, 'cause I was lazy ^^)
I know, that I have a responsibility towards the artist, and that hate Mails can have huge impacts on them. I've already Seen it myself.
But on the other Hand, this isn't just the commenters flaw Most of the time!
I've either Seen other examples where it was really Bad with Ranting and so on, but then the Artist said something about how he feels and what he thinks of all the critique!
And the comments really got better!
Furthermore, when he Wrote things like "I'm Not really pleased with how this looks like" in the description After that, the People in the comments Reassured him that it'd Look great!
So the Artist also has a responsibility towards the commenters, to make sure they know how to react, via Journals, etc. since otherwise we can't Know exactly how the Artist feels about certain things!
I don't want to say it was your Friends fault that she had to give up, but did she Tell them about it, before she stopped?
If they only failed in helping her, with a good intention, a dialogue might have been a soloution!
(I like this discussion very much because each of us has a view from one of the two sides!
)But, furthermore, you've taken and altered my point!
I didn't ever say you should only write what's bad if you have an issue! I suggested you should say: "Everything is good/works, besides..."
This is a different case, as the Artist can Tell what's good by taking the whole page and removing the mentioned parts.
To take your example:
I think of parents that take the Kids certificate and Tell him: "Your Grades are all good so far, here you have 2$, but you'll have to work harder at maths or I'll withdraw your computer!"
See my Point?
And about the where, when and who?
If you scroll up again to my Original comment, you'll See that I've done exactly that! I've Said that Bearfangs paw movement doesn't fit because it should have already completed for the wounds to fit.
(I only didn't requote the whole commentin the Last one, 'cause I was lazy ^^)
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