Comment on Christianity and Free Will by Taqresu650
Indeed. I can't force you or anyone to believe. Christianity has had a bad rep from the past centuries, especially with the Inquisition and Crusades. Not many realize that those evil periods of history weren't caused by Christians. Conversion to Christianity has to be a personal, spiritual choice, it doesn't work if it's forced upon someone. If you choose not to believe, that's your choice.
One of things I do like about the Bible though is that it teaches us to love everyone, even our enemies.
One of things I do like about the Bible though is that it teaches us to love everyone, even our enemies.
And that is what people must understand. People shouldn't use their religions to get extra power or privileges. It shouldn't be held over what people were born with (LGBT) or to justify hate or racism. If people are peaceful and don't force people into their religion, I have no quarrel.
To be completely honest here, and I really don't mean to offend, but I personally believe LGBT actions are sins, and not a form of identity. I don't hate people who have that, they are still human beings. We all have sins, some are just more prominent than others. I can't blame others for their sins when I sin myself. And even so, I won't force you to agree with my opinion, I was just stating my personal beliefs. It is also stated in the Bible that God loves all of humanity equally, so when people say "God hates..." it's never true.
Yet, even now, I have a hard time even voicing my opinion because some people get offended in an instant even when I say I don't mean any offense. These days, many Christian beliefs go against the popular beliefs, such as the one I stated above. Another example, I'm a Young-Earth Creationist, which means I believe in the literal account of Creation, and it means that I don't believe in Macro-Evolution (There is the difference between macro and micro evolution). I don't need to go further to show how that might offend someone, even a rational mind.
At the same time, I don't go forcing my opinion or beliefs on someone who doesn't share them. And I don't use them as excuses to hate or diminish anyone in any way. It's just that when I try to voice any of my controversial views, it's hard to find someone who would respect them and not blow up in my face with why they believe I'm wrong. It also doesn't help that I'm a white, male, republican and conservative. Adding Christian to the list just adds to the "Evil Racist and Sexist" impression that any title would hold alone.
Yet, even now, I have a hard time even voicing my opinion because some people get offended in an instant even when I say I don't mean any offense. These days, many Christian beliefs go against the popular beliefs, such as the one I stated above. Another example, I'm a Young-Earth Creationist, which means I believe in the literal account of Creation, and it means that I don't believe in Macro-Evolution (There is the difference between macro and micro evolution). I don't need to go further to show how that might offend someone, even a rational mind.
At the same time, I don't go forcing my opinion or beliefs on someone who doesn't share them. And I don't use them as excuses to hate or diminish anyone in any way. It's just that when I try to voice any of my controversial views, it's hard to find someone who would respect them and not blow up in my face with why they believe I'm wrong. It also doesn't help that I'm a white, male, republican and conservative. Adding Christian to the list just adds to the "Evil Racist and Sexist" impression that any title would hold alone.
No, but as LGBT myself, I don't believe that something as natural as LGBT relations could ever be called a 'sin'. I also believe blanketing a group of people (Christians) by calling them all sexist or something is completely awful. Some might be sexist but not all of them are. Religion shouldn't be used as a shield for hate or used to control other people. It's important that people understand that.
I hope that this doesn't change our friendship or that if you think I'm being confrontational, as that is not my intention.
I hope that this doesn't change our friendship or that if you think I'm being confrontational, as that is not my intention.
I complete understand. I don't see you as confrontational. I've seen a lot of people who are intentionally confrontational about these issues, you are not one of them. And it doesn't change our friendship at all. I would also like to say the same, I'm not trying to be confrontational either, I'm simply stating my beliefs on the matter.
I respect your opinion. The way I see it though, and you don't have to believe this yourself, I see Sin as a kind of misunderstood concept. In many ways, Sin is natural. It is a curse, but one that every human has. We've all lied right? It seems natural for us to lie because there isn't a single human being in existence who hasn't lied. Yet, at the same time, it's a sin. Attraction to a person (regardless of the gender) falls along the same lines. But I see it more of an action rather than a personality or identity. In college, I'm taught that Identity is fluid and you're never truly yourself. But I believe otherwise. I believe that all humans have a soul that forms our base identity, and that it grows and develops, but I don't believe we have multiple identities. The status of LGBT may influence someone's life, but I don't think it becomes them or that they become that status. It's kind of hard to explain.
When it comes to animals, I believe that they don't have souls. They may have minds, and feelings, but they don't have spirits, or even a sense of right or wrong. In that way, sin is entirely natural for them, because they don't have a sense of good or evil (by the way, I'm not trying to bash on Warriors, it's a great series). So when animals perform acts on incest or murder, they don't have a consciousness or identity determining the course of their lives or action. Mating with a different species or an animal of any sex makes no moral difference to them because they don't have a morality. Some may be very intelligent, but I don't believe they have identities of their own.
Sin is really a curse that divides us from God and the spiritual aspects of reality. It keeps us from following and accepting God's grand design. And again, I'm not trying to be offensive or confrontational. You don't have to believe this if you don't want to. But I believe that in God's Grand Design, humans are meant to have heterosexual relationships in marriage. It doesn't mean I hate people who are LGBT. You're my friend, and I even have two friends who love each other, and they're both girls. I've met them in real life, and they both have profiles here on DA. I don't hate them or you. And when people use Christianity, or any other religion as a shield for hate, prejudice, or control, it's wrong. I may think LGBT acts are sinful, but I don't hate anyone for doing any sinful acts.
I respect your opinion. The way I see it though, and you don't have to believe this yourself, I see Sin as a kind of misunderstood concept. In many ways, Sin is natural. It is a curse, but one that every human has. We've all lied right? It seems natural for us to lie because there isn't a single human being in existence who hasn't lied. Yet, at the same time, it's a sin. Attraction to a person (regardless of the gender) falls along the same lines. But I see it more of an action rather than a personality or identity. In college, I'm taught that Identity is fluid and you're never truly yourself. But I believe otherwise. I believe that all humans have a soul that forms our base identity, and that it grows and develops, but I don't believe we have multiple identities. The status of LGBT may influence someone's life, but I don't think it becomes them or that they become that status. It's kind of hard to explain.
When it comes to animals, I believe that they don't have souls. They may have minds, and feelings, but they don't have spirits, or even a sense of right or wrong. In that way, sin is entirely natural for them, because they don't have a sense of good or evil (by the way, I'm not trying to bash on Warriors, it's a great series). So when animals perform acts on incest or murder, they don't have a consciousness or identity determining the course of their lives or action. Mating with a different species or an animal of any sex makes no moral difference to them because they don't have a morality. Some may be very intelligent, but I don't believe they have identities of their own.
Sin is really a curse that divides us from God and the spiritual aspects of reality. It keeps us from following and accepting God's grand design. And again, I'm not trying to be offensive or confrontational. You don't have to believe this if you don't want to. But I believe that in God's Grand Design, humans are meant to have heterosexual relationships in marriage. It doesn't mean I hate people who are LGBT. You're my friend, and I even have two friends who love each other, and they're both girls. I've met them in real life, and they both have profiles here on DA. I don't hate them or you. And when people use Christianity, or any other religion as a shield for hate, prejudice, or control, it's wrong. I may think LGBT acts are sinful, but I don't hate anyone for doing any sinful acts.
And that is how those people that are bad that say they are Christian need to know. No one is saying that they have to do anything it's just other people getting rights, that's all. No one should have a reason to hate someone else. But that is just my opinion.
I see your point. I'm sorry for such a large text wall earlier though lol
Those bad people who only claim the name of Christians give us a bad name, and I'm really seeing how that is affecting people's view of Christianity in particular. There are many who still believe Christians were responsible for gruesome acts in history like the Crusades and Inquisition. And there are people who see Christians, and God, as racist, sexist, elitist, selfish, and more. And sadly, this hasn't been the worst of it.
Now I know Hebrews aren't technically Christians, but in some ways, I see Christianity as an extension and advancement of Judaism and Hebrewism. All three believe in the same God, and we all believe in the Old Testament. This may end up as another text wall, but please bear with me. You know the story of Joseph right? He has 12 older brothers, and he was born in his father's old age. He was the favorite, even given a luxurious coat of many colors. At this point, he and his family were all people and shepherds of Canaan, and they believed in God. Joseph's brother's hated how favored he was over them, so they threw him in a pit, sold him to slavery, and convinced their father that a vicious beast slew Joseph.
Joseph was brought to Egypt and either was sold to the Pharoh or the man under Pharoh (I can't quite remember). Anyway, the wife of Joseph's master tried to advance on Joseph sexually, and when he refused, she convinced her husband that Joseph attempted to rape her. For that, Joseph was imprisoned. While in prison, he met two servants who had reoccurring dreams. God allowed Joseph to interpret their dreams, and when the Pharoh heard about this, he summoned Joseph to interpret a dream he kept having of the future, which no one else could interpret. Joseph predicted, through Pharoh's dream, that their would be 7 years of plenty followed by 7 years of famine. For helping Pharoh prepare, he was given the second highest position in Egypt.
During the 7 years of plenty, Joseph met his brother's again. They weren't aware that who they saw was Joseph, but at that point, they all regretted their actions because they never understood what the consequences were, especially for their aging father. Joseph ended up forgiving them in the end, and his whole family, and more from Canaan were granted a place among Egypt's people. Generations passed, and God's people from Canaan multiplied until they outnumbered the Egyptians. And that began just ONE of the worst experiences for God's people.
Now we're at the story of Moses (did you know the two stories were this connected?). There's a new Pharoh in charge, and he thought that if the Hebrews multiplied any further, they would overthrow the great kingdom of Egypt. So he issued orders for his soldiers to steal the firstborns of every Hebrew household and feed them to the Alligators in the Nile. Then he condemned all the rest of the Hebrews to slavery. Moses was spared because his mother hid him in a basket floating down the Nile, where he was found by Pharoh's wife and her handmaidens. Taking the child as their own, Moses grew up besides Ramses (I don't know if there was more than one Ramses, but I suspect this all happens in the gap of history between Egypt's middle Kingdom and Egypt's Late Kingdom, it would explain the gap in records).
One day, Moses saw the harshness of the Hebrew's slavery and killed one of the slave drivers. For his murder, he was either banished or ran away on his own. I think he ends up in either Canaan or some other land with people who loved the Lord. He began a life of his own and learned of the Hebrew God. Then he encounters the famous burning bush moment where God speaks to him and commands him to free His people. After some negotiation (seriously, if you read the account you will actually see Moses making excuses like how he wasn't fluent in speech), Moses finally returns to Egypt and convinces Aaron of the Hebrews (and possibly Moses' biological brother) to speak with him to Pharoh. Pharoh refuses to release God's people, and each time he refuses, a plague was laid across Egypt and all but the Hebrews.
Now, I'm not sure what people think of the plagues, but I believe that the Pharoh brought this upon himself. If he had simply let the Hebrews go right away, Egypt wouldn't have suffered any of those plagues. Anyway, back to the story. Each of these plagues took part in tearing down what could have been Egypt's Middle Kingdom. The Nile, which was the spiritual and agricultural center of Egypt was turned to blood and vermin like toads, disease and locusts spread like a wildfire. Famine grew, and fire from the sky destroyed a lot. Then the Egyptians suffered the same treatement their earlier Pharoh gave to the Hebrews (although they could have avoided it by painting the blood of a lamb upon their doorways).
Once all was said and done, Pharoh finally agreed to let the Hebrews go, and that was after his own son and heir died. God told the Hebrews to plunder what they wanted from the Egyptians and leave (it was all for building the Nation of Israel). But the Pharoh was so desperate that he sent every soldier he had and chases after the Hebrews to slaughter them. Moses splits the Red Sea (which was during the flood season, the Red Sea isn't so deep otherwise) and they escape. Then the Red Sea crashes down on the Egyptians.
There are people who don't believe any of this really happened because there aren't really any records of this outside the Bible. But I believe there were no records because for one: Why would the Egyptians record this. Their Pharoh, firstborns, and entire army just died in one fell swoop. The Nile was turned to blood, and horrible plagues possibly killed even more Egyptians. And people who were their slaves got out unscathed and they also plundered the treasures of that time period in Egypt. It was recorded by Moses when he wrote down the first five books of the Bible, but Egypt was basically destroyed. It isn't far fetched to think that it's the reason why Egypt has such a large gap in history between the Middle and New Kingdoms. And if this was the first Pharoh of Ramses (as I suspect since I've heard a Ramses in the New Kingdom) there's no reason for Egypt to record his name if he allowed this to fall on Egypt.
I didn't get to any of the other times that people who've worshiped God has suffered, but I'm really sorry for such a large text wall, so I'll stop this comment here.
Those bad people who only claim the name of Christians give us a bad name, and I'm really seeing how that is affecting people's view of Christianity in particular. There are many who still believe Christians were responsible for gruesome acts in history like the Crusades and Inquisition. And there are people who see Christians, and God, as racist, sexist, elitist, selfish, and more. And sadly, this hasn't been the worst of it.
Now I know Hebrews aren't technically Christians, but in some ways, I see Christianity as an extension and advancement of Judaism and Hebrewism. All three believe in the same God, and we all believe in the Old Testament. This may end up as another text wall, but please bear with me. You know the story of Joseph right? He has 12 older brothers, and he was born in his father's old age. He was the favorite, even given a luxurious coat of many colors. At this point, he and his family were all people and shepherds of Canaan, and they believed in God. Joseph's brother's hated how favored he was over them, so they threw him in a pit, sold him to slavery, and convinced their father that a vicious beast slew Joseph.
Joseph was brought to Egypt and either was sold to the Pharoh or the man under Pharoh (I can't quite remember). Anyway, the wife of Joseph's master tried to advance on Joseph sexually, and when he refused, she convinced her husband that Joseph attempted to rape her. For that, Joseph was imprisoned. While in prison, he met two servants who had reoccurring dreams. God allowed Joseph to interpret their dreams, and when the Pharoh heard about this, he summoned Joseph to interpret a dream he kept having of the future, which no one else could interpret. Joseph predicted, through Pharoh's dream, that their would be 7 years of plenty followed by 7 years of famine. For helping Pharoh prepare, he was given the second highest position in Egypt.
During the 7 years of plenty, Joseph met his brother's again. They weren't aware that who they saw was Joseph, but at that point, they all regretted their actions because they never understood what the consequences were, especially for their aging father. Joseph ended up forgiving them in the end, and his whole family, and more from Canaan were granted a place among Egypt's people. Generations passed, and God's people from Canaan multiplied until they outnumbered the Egyptians. And that began just ONE of the worst experiences for God's people.
Now we're at the story of Moses (did you know the two stories were this connected?). There's a new Pharoh in charge, and he thought that if the Hebrews multiplied any further, they would overthrow the great kingdom of Egypt. So he issued orders for his soldiers to steal the firstborns of every Hebrew household and feed them to the Alligators in the Nile. Then he condemned all the rest of the Hebrews to slavery. Moses was spared because his mother hid him in a basket floating down the Nile, where he was found by Pharoh's wife and her handmaidens. Taking the child as their own, Moses grew up besides Ramses (I don't know if there was more than one Ramses, but I suspect this all happens in the gap of history between Egypt's middle Kingdom and Egypt's Late Kingdom, it would explain the gap in records).
One day, Moses saw the harshness of the Hebrew's slavery and killed one of the slave drivers. For his murder, he was either banished or ran away on his own. I think he ends up in either Canaan or some other land with people who loved the Lord. He began a life of his own and learned of the Hebrew God. Then he encounters the famous burning bush moment where God speaks to him and commands him to free His people. After some negotiation (seriously, if you read the account you will actually see Moses making excuses like how he wasn't fluent in speech), Moses finally returns to Egypt and convinces Aaron of the Hebrews (and possibly Moses' biological brother) to speak with him to Pharoh. Pharoh refuses to release God's people, and each time he refuses, a plague was laid across Egypt and all but the Hebrews.
Now, I'm not sure what people think of the plagues, but I believe that the Pharoh brought this upon himself. If he had simply let the Hebrews go right away, Egypt wouldn't have suffered any of those plagues. Anyway, back to the story. Each of these plagues took part in tearing down what could have been Egypt's Middle Kingdom. The Nile, which was the spiritual and agricultural center of Egypt was turned to blood and vermin like toads, disease and locusts spread like a wildfire. Famine grew, and fire from the sky destroyed a lot. Then the Egyptians suffered the same treatement their earlier Pharoh gave to the Hebrews (although they could have avoided it by painting the blood of a lamb upon their doorways).
Once all was said and done, Pharoh finally agreed to let the Hebrews go, and that was after his own son and heir died. God told the Hebrews to plunder what they wanted from the Egyptians and leave (it was all for building the Nation of Israel). But the Pharoh was so desperate that he sent every soldier he had and chases after the Hebrews to slaughter them. Moses splits the Red Sea (which was during the flood season, the Red Sea isn't so deep otherwise) and they escape. Then the Red Sea crashes down on the Egyptians.
There are people who don't believe any of this really happened because there aren't really any records of this outside the Bible. But I believe there were no records because for one: Why would the Egyptians record this. Their Pharoh, firstborns, and entire army just died in one fell swoop. The Nile was turned to blood, and horrible plagues possibly killed even more Egyptians. And people who were their slaves got out unscathed and they also plundered the treasures of that time period in Egypt. It was recorded by Moses when he wrote down the first five books of the Bible, but Egypt was basically destroyed. It isn't far fetched to think that it's the reason why Egypt has such a large gap in history between the Middle and New Kingdoms. And if this was the first Pharoh of Ramses (as I suspect since I've heard a Ramses in the New Kingdom) there's no reason for Egypt to record his name if he allowed this to fall on Egypt.
I didn't get to any of the other times that people who've worshiped God has suffered, but I'm really sorry for such a large text wall, so I'll stop this comment here.