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1. Watch your ad hominems, mate. That's a good way to lose an argument before it starts.
2. My issue is that they aren't making a new cast with the new show. It makes no sense to me why they would drastically alter characters we know and love a good one year after G4 is finished.
3. You ask what makes forced diversity different from regular diversity? Simple. Regular diversity is when a media gives forethought on what said character contributes to the story. If the character is of a different age, sex or race, but brings along meaningful conflicts and elements to support a plot, it's meaningful. Forced diversity is having a character that's different for the sake of representation be shoved in with no fore-thought other than inclusivity.
-REFLECTION QUESTIONS-
-The actor isn't killing the character, Hasbro is. You want a pony with an African actress for diverse roles? Fine. Just make it a new character and don't drastically alter old ones.
-Got me there. I'm not sure yet. We do know that she will certainly start out as rough around the edges in the bad side of a city, but her character growth will determine her outcome.
-See above.
-The color ain't the problem, mate. I don't care if the new cast has all whites or all blacks. It's all about the fact that existing characters are changed to fit a quota.
4. Gotta admit, all the characters changing is a big problem, but AJ is a prime example of how political correctness is a problem in the media today. WW2 doesn't have women in the front lines? Let's change that. Medieval England have African people in their ranks? Let's change that. There's not a single person in a show that's trans? Let's change that.
So to recap, I answered you to the best of my abilities, but it doesn't matter because you are looking to pick a fight rather than talk it out. Good day.
2. My issue is that they aren't making a new cast with the new show. It makes no sense to me why they would drastically alter characters we know and love a good one year after G4 is finished.
3. You ask what makes forced diversity different from regular diversity? Simple. Regular diversity is when a media gives forethought on what said character contributes to the story. If the character is of a different age, sex or race, but brings along meaningful conflicts and elements to support a plot, it's meaningful. Forced diversity is having a character that's different for the sake of representation be shoved in with no fore-thought other than inclusivity.
-REFLECTION QUESTIONS-
-The actor isn't killing the character, Hasbro is. You want a pony with an African actress for diverse roles? Fine. Just make it a new character and don't drastically alter old ones.
-Got me there. I'm not sure yet. We do know that she will certainly start out as rough around the edges in the bad side of a city, but her character growth will determine her outcome.
-See above.
-The color ain't the problem, mate. I don't care if the new cast has all whites or all blacks. It's all about the fact that existing characters are changed to fit a quota.
4. Gotta admit, all the characters changing is a big problem, but AJ is a prime example of how political correctness is a problem in the media today. WW2 doesn't have women in the front lines? Let's change that. Medieval England have African people in their ranks? Let's change that. There's not a single person in a show that's trans? Let's change that.
So to recap, I answered you to the best of my abilities, but it doesn't matter because you are looking to pick a fight rather than talk it out. Good day.
You know what I find interesting?
Your rapport about "forced diversity" only seems to pick at some perceived slight over a black actress and worry about how that affects AJ. You claim you don't care if the new cast has all whites or all blacks, but that's clearly what you're picking at here.
Nowhere do you mention in your rant say, the detail of Twilight being made into an Earth Pony and Pinkiepie a Pegasi - a literal race change and diversity flipup in the main cast in-verse with drastic implications. Why is that I wonder? Is it only because you identify and are overly paranoid about diversity when it relates to real life but when depicted in the show or implicated it's, oh not such a big deal despite being part of the fiction's cultural dimension? I'm just saying I don't see you similarly ranting about forced diversity of Pegasi and Earth Ponies, mannnnnn.
I'm with you that the show would benefit from a new cast rather than re-using an old one, but conflating that with some boohoo perception of "Forced diversity" because they changed the characters is just trying to force your own cultural war crap down an existing issue that's not anything new with cartoons for decades. Transformers heavily modified it's characters throughout it's run, as did G.I Joe and many long-running series that have been rebooted. If you want to complain about changing characters and personalities with a new interpretation every reboot fine, but don't force your politics onto it where it's just not there.
Your rapport about "forced diversity" only seems to pick at some perceived slight over a black actress and worry about how that affects AJ. You claim you don't care if the new cast has all whites or all blacks, but that's clearly what you're picking at here.
Nowhere do you mention in your rant say, the detail of Twilight being made into an Earth Pony and Pinkiepie a Pegasi - a literal race change and diversity flipup in the main cast in-verse with drastic implications. Why is that I wonder? Is it only because you identify and are overly paranoid about diversity when it relates to real life but when depicted in the show or implicated it's, oh not such a big deal despite being part of the fiction's cultural dimension? I'm just saying I don't see you similarly ranting about forced diversity of Pegasi and Earth Ponies, mannnnnn.
I'm with you that the show would benefit from a new cast rather than re-using an old one, but conflating that with some boohoo perception of "Forced diversity" because they changed the characters is just trying to force your own cultural war crap down an existing issue that's not anything new with cartoons for decades. Transformers heavily modified it's characters throughout it's run, as did G.I Joe and many long-running series that have been rebooted. If you want to complain about changing characters and personalities with a new interpretation every reboot fine, but don't force your politics onto it where it's just not there.
As I've told Kappetapp, this is a (possibly over)reaction from how Hollywood and the BBC are making a huge effort to focus on making sure that an all white cast in both fictional characters and the talent behind them. As I said before, I don't care what a company does and I'm more than happy for a diverse cast, but when a company is making that the main focus above all else, that's when I start to raise eyebrows.
You know who's replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man? An African woman.
time.com/4394478/iron-man-riri…
You know who's the new Buffy the Vampire Slayer? An African woman.
www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/07/… (Also lol at the face of modern day feminism and equality freaking out about this.)
The point is, if they want to make these changes, that's fine. However, you claim that I'm inserting politics into this? I am, but they are the ones that made this a political movement in the first place. African women are, at the moment, being herald as the new force against Trump, and Hollywood and comic book companies want to make changes to fight back against the evil orange man. It's fine if you don't see the underlying politics. Maybe you think I'm racist. However, I'm sticking to my guns that more and more iconic characters are being changed and rearranged to fit a narrative, and that's my biggest issue. You want to feature a POC character? Don't replace iconic folks. Make your own character and give us a reason to like them based on their personality and motivations and not the color of their skin.
You know who's replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man? An African woman.
time.com/4394478/iron-man-riri…
You know who's the new Buffy the Vampire Slayer? An African woman.
www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/07/… (Also lol at the face of modern day feminism and equality freaking out about this.)
The point is, if they want to make these changes, that's fine. However, you claim that I'm inserting politics into this? I am, but they are the ones that made this a political movement in the first place. African women are, at the moment, being herald as the new force against Trump, and Hollywood and comic book companies want to make changes to fight back against the evil orange man. It's fine if you don't see the underlying politics. Maybe you think I'm racist. However, I'm sticking to my guns that more and more iconic characters are being changed and rearranged to fit a narrative, and that's my biggest issue. You want to feature a POC character? Don't replace iconic folks. Make your own character and give us a reason to like them based on their personality and motivations and not the color of their skin.
The key word in your gripe is replace. That resounds more as an emotionally laden rhetoric then evidence of any actual fact by any means.
"You want to feature a POC character? Don't replace iconic folks. Make your own character and give us a reason to like them based on their personality and motivations and not the color of their skin."
That's exactly what they did however?
Iron-man didn't inexplicably transform into a black woman (creepy and weirdly misguided as that sounds). This is a whole new character, who happens to be an African woman.
She's not Tony or Ironman, she has an entire separate existence from Tony and he still exists. In other words, for people who like African Ironwoman, good on them, and for fans of the original comics and on-going comics of Ironman, he's still there too. They both exist concurrently and haven't gone away or been replaced by any means.
So what's the issue here?
Why is that so offensive to you exactly? Maybe you're bigoted or, more likely, you find it easy to politicize it, but that doesn't make minority characters introduced a new phenomenon with some ultra-biased agenda. In 1999, batgirl was crippled and replaced by an Asian batgirl (Batgirl was crippled at the time, so two new batgirls were introduced). In the New 52 a black flash (Wallace) was introduced. Throw in John Stewart (African Green Lantern), Aqualad the black protege of Aquaman, Miguel, a latin american spiderman, and know this goes on thru decades. It's not new. Replacing iconic characters, do you know how many Robins and Batgirls, Flashes, Green Lanterns, and Spiderman's there have been? (Literally dozens and dozens of Spidermans, to the point where they had a whole arc about crossing over them all) Supergirl was introduced as a counterpart to Kal El. Wolverine had a female doppelganger cloned of him. Iconic Villains like Green Goblin and Venom might as well have been "replaced" numerous times with variants, did you even know which character holds the title and identity? I don't.
The character's "personality and motivations" are not based off the fact that they're not white, by any means. There can be an argument made for the lack of originality, but considering how Iconic superheroes get replaced all the time, it seems telling that you're only focused on this instance because this time they happen to be female and black and that upsets some kind of standard you're 100% committed to. Long before any big political upset this has happened, which makes it seem like you're only projecting into things you're dissatisfied with.
Maybe you're not racist. But the fact that you consider a narcissistic hack Anita Sarkeesian like "the face of modern day feminism and equality" tells me that you're pretty biased and misinformed, and it's hard to have any objective debate with someone who considers "an African woman" superhero an offensive affront to them makes it hard to not assume some bigoted premise on your behalf.
"You want to feature a POC character? Don't replace iconic folks. Make your own character and give us a reason to like them based on their personality and motivations and not the color of their skin."
That's exactly what they did however?
Iron-man didn't inexplicably transform into a black woman (creepy and weirdly misguided as that sounds). This is a whole new character, who happens to be an African woman.
She's not Tony or Ironman, she has an entire separate existence from Tony and he still exists. In other words, for people who like African Ironwoman, good on them, and for fans of the original comics and on-going comics of Ironman, he's still there too. They both exist concurrently and haven't gone away or been replaced by any means.
So what's the issue here?
Why is that so offensive to you exactly? Maybe you're bigoted or, more likely, you find it easy to politicize it, but that doesn't make minority characters introduced a new phenomenon with some ultra-biased agenda. In 1999, batgirl was crippled and replaced by an Asian batgirl (Batgirl was crippled at the time, so two new batgirls were introduced). In the New 52 a black flash (Wallace) was introduced. Throw in John Stewart (African Green Lantern), Aqualad the black protege of Aquaman, Miguel, a latin american spiderman, and know this goes on thru decades. It's not new. Replacing iconic characters, do you know how many Robins and Batgirls, Flashes, Green Lanterns, and Spiderman's there have been? (Literally dozens and dozens of Spidermans, to the point where they had a whole arc about crossing over them all) Supergirl was introduced as a counterpart to Kal El. Wolverine had a female doppelganger cloned of him. Iconic Villains like Green Goblin and Venom might as well have been "replaced" numerous times with variants, did you even know which character holds the title and identity? I don't.
The character's "personality and motivations" are not based off the fact that they're not white, by any means. There can be an argument made for the lack of originality, but considering how Iconic superheroes get replaced all the time, it seems telling that you're only focused on this instance because this time they happen to be female and black and that upsets some kind of standard you're 100% committed to. Long before any big political upset this has happened, which makes it seem like you're only projecting into things you're dissatisfied with.
Maybe you're not racist. But the fact that you consider a narcissistic hack Anita Sarkeesian like "the face of modern day feminism and equality" tells me that you're pretty biased and misinformed, and it's hard to have any objective debate with someone who considers "an African woman" superhero an offensive affront to them makes it hard to not assume some bigoted premise on your behalf.
Not gonna lie, you are completely correct on comic books and media freshening up iconic heroes with different character. This is nothing new. I concede to that and I do retract my statement. Honestly, I would love to see Riri Williams use Wakanda technology to make her version of Iron Man to be more unique to her character.
Again, though, you gotta understand that politics today has played a heavy hand in the movies, video games, and comics we play. We are living in an environment that, if there are no POC in a video game, it's labelled as white washed and racist, despite the goal being historical accuracy.
steemit.com/gaming/@sebi99p/ki…
I fear that racism of both white, black, and in everything between has spiraled so out of control in our nation, that we are using our own creations to push a political message instead of telling a story, so please forgive the fact that I'm extremely wary (and weary) of hidden agendas in the things we watch, play, and read.
Also, you missed the boat with Anita. If you seen my previous journals, you know I find her to be a scammer and a hack. I just find it hilarious that she's trying to be this bastion of social justice when she says the newest Doctor Who should be black and trans, while flipping out about the changes in HER favorite show.
www.washingtontimes.com/news/2…
It just goes to show that her reaction is a sign that we are going through way too many reboots that push diversity rather than tell us a story.
Anyway, that's my $0.02. I don't know what your opinion is of me, but I assure you I mean no harm. I'm just deeply afraid of people being shouted down because of an invisible quota to please people. As an amateur game designer, I might face those allegations in some way or another very soon.
Again, though, you gotta understand that politics today has played a heavy hand in the movies, video games, and comics we play. We are living in an environment that, if there are no POC in a video game, it's labelled as white washed and racist, despite the goal being historical accuracy.
steemit.com/gaming/@sebi99p/ki…
I fear that racism of both white, black, and in everything between has spiraled so out of control in our nation, that we are using our own creations to push a political message instead of telling a story, so please forgive the fact that I'm extremely wary (and weary) of hidden agendas in the things we watch, play, and read.
Also, you missed the boat with Anita. If you seen my previous journals, you know I find her to be a scammer and a hack. I just find it hilarious that she's trying to be this bastion of social justice when she says the newest Doctor Who should be black and trans, while flipping out about the changes in HER favorite show.
www.washingtontimes.com/news/2…
It just goes to show that her reaction is a sign that we are going through way too many reboots that push diversity rather than tell us a story.
Anyway, that's my $0.02. I don't know what your opinion is of me, but I assure you I mean no harm. I'm just deeply afraid of people being shouted down because of an invisible quota to please people. As an amateur game designer, I might face those allegations in some way or another very soon.
I'm an amateur game designer too (It's my only source of income infact).
I don't know you, and I haven't really watched or cared about MLP for years. But I find any claims about a character being ruined simply by a voice actor or certain depiction (Something about her being a City pony) has me suspect. I remember when I was big on Littlest Pet Shop the main character, Zoe Trent got a lot of accusations of being 'coded black' and was commonly shown depicted as an african character (She's a dog, plus her voice actor is white) for her, diva personality, sass and theatrics. I don't mind that, but I think leaning to heavily into it is the wrong idea. I find that taken to a certain degree suspect and stiff for the same reason I don't consider say, Pearl or Amethyst "asian-coded" characters simply because their VA's are Asian.
On the other hand, if they make AJ like some super-cliched black sistah' stereotype or something in a fantasy MLP setting, I'd be like yeah, fuck that.
That's bigoted in it's own way honestly. And I don't find Riri that bad, just given her race alone. More so, I do find Female Thor quoting Gamergate and making tweet jokes extremely obnoxious since that's basically painting a norse character as some kind of trashy millennial - I welcome character variety, but that personality change is plain garbage. They could leave her a white male for all I care and it'd be just as horrible.
It seems like our interests are aligned, I agree that polarization of politics has gone way too far. But I try to always give the benefit of the doubt since leaning towards any premature judgements seems rather hasty. Idunno how G5 will turn out, but the chance of AJ suddenly speaking Ebonics is kinda the least of my worries with MLP's future.
I don't know you, and I haven't really watched or cared about MLP for years. But I find any claims about a character being ruined simply by a voice actor or certain depiction (Something about her being a City pony) has me suspect. I remember when I was big on Littlest Pet Shop the main character, Zoe Trent got a lot of accusations of being 'coded black' and was commonly shown depicted as an african character (She's a dog, plus her voice actor is white) for her, diva personality, sass and theatrics. I don't mind that, but I think leaning to heavily into it is the wrong idea. I find that taken to a certain degree suspect and stiff for the same reason I don't consider say, Pearl or Amethyst "asian-coded" characters simply because their VA's are Asian.
On the other hand, if they make AJ like some super-cliched black sistah' stereotype or something in a fantasy MLP setting, I'd be like yeah, fuck that.
That's bigoted in it's own way honestly. And I don't find Riri that bad, just given her race alone. More so, I do find Female Thor quoting Gamergate and making tweet jokes extremely obnoxious since that's basically painting a norse character as some kind of trashy millennial - I welcome character variety, but that personality change is plain garbage. They could leave her a white male for all I care and it'd be just as horrible.
It seems like our interests are aligned, I agree that polarization of politics has gone way too far. But I try to always give the benefit of the doubt since leaning towards any premature judgements seems rather hasty. Idunno how G5 will turn out, but the chance of AJ suddenly speaking Ebonics is kinda the least of my worries with MLP's future.
I just hope you don't find my fears completely baseless. I have the facts and statistics to back up my fear. When the documents of G5 came out and Meghan freakin' McCarthy said they wanted to replace her because she was too "hickish", that launched a couple red flags for me.
Still, I'll be hopeful that they do the right thing.
Still, I'll be hopeful that they do the right thing.
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>Please understand why I need to insult you.
This is why I'm not reading what you took the time to write. None of it. If you want a discussion with me, be respectful. As I said before, it's a good way to lose the argument before it even starts.
Follow your snail's example: Respectfully disagree with me, but still love me. That's what you want, right? How about you practice before you preach? I'm willing to forgive you. Frankly, I think you are simply misguided on what my issues are and what I'm truly like. Sorry for mis-gendering you and causing you distress, but I stand by my beliefs as well as respectfully disagree with yours.
It's not too late. Right now, you are looking like the bad guy here, no matter how much of a racist, misogynist, transphobe, insert buzzword here that I look like to you. Apologize for your behavior and be on your way.
This is why I'm not reading what you took the time to write. None of it. If you want a discussion with me, be respectful. As I said before, it's a good way to lose the argument before it even starts.
Follow your snail's example: Respectfully disagree with me, but still love me. That's what you want, right? How about you practice before you preach? I'm willing to forgive you. Frankly, I think you are simply misguided on what my issues are and what I'm truly like. Sorry for mis-gendering you and causing you distress, but I stand by my beliefs as well as respectfully disagree with yours.
It's not too late. Right now, you are looking like the bad guy here, no matter how much of a racist, misogynist, transphobe, insert buzzword here that I look like to you. Apologize for your behavior and be on your way.
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Im tired with people calling white people Privillaged... This Drives me Crazy, Im also Tired of the Colored people With their Black Lives Matter I'm tired with the LTGBQ community having their pride prades. Im tired of the illegals coming to my home country demanding More than they are given. I'm tired with Hare Core Islamic Followers Crying everything Un-Islamic offends them, and must be changed. This is Exactally what Diversity does within all countries Divides us all. Unity is what makes us Strongest,when we put our differences aside us and come together in time of Disaster to help each other, Danger we all stand together as one to protect our country. We look out for each other to keep everyone safe.
In my eyes...
Diversity means division
unity means put difference aside to help each other out..
Hasbor care more about selling stuff. if the G5 shows are as sloppy as the Latest shows in the G4. People are going to bail on the The MLP Franchise..
You think I'm disrespecting someone's existence, but I assure you that I'm not.
Now that the smoke is clearing, I'm going to be completely straight with you.
It's both a wonderful thing and terrible thing that you brought this topic up.
When it comes to displaying the other side of the argument, you certainly did a good job. As you can see, the comments here are mostly agreeing with the sentiments that I have. But you are provoking thought about the other side. Is this change really a bad thing? What if they know what they are doing? Am I overreacting? Is this a knee-jerk reaction? It's very likely. The comic book industry, Hollywood as a whole, the video game industry, many products that are coming out of those media outlets lately are less focused on telling a story and more highlighting the creator's political bias. That's why I and many other people see Applejack's change as a big red flag. We're worried they are following that trend. But you know what? I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for Hasbro to make a character that's both believable and diverse. The moment I find this new Applejack to be the case, I will delete this journal and state my love, no questions asked. It's good for you to highlight this possibility instead of focusing on the negatives of change.
Now, the terrible thing about you bringing this topic up is HOW you brought this up.
I'm worried that, by insulting me off the gate and trying to justify why you did that, you immediately discredited your argument right out of the gate. I'm going to let you in on a trade secret. Back in the day, before colleges worried about useless courses that does no one any good, they use to teach students the art of the debate. You demonstrated two different ones in both your responses: "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" and "Ad hominem". I didn't like this change, therefore I'm a racist. That makes it ok to call me an idiot. To be fair, I don't blame you for this mindset. Many peer groups today and even some college courses teach that the loudest groups wins. The ends justify the means. But here's the thing. The reason I went to your art was to see what kind of person you really are, as art is a wonderful expression on one's character. By having your character say that you respect other people's views when you, yourself, insult others that don't think the way you do makes you look very hypocritical. And let me tell you, hypocrisy kills your character like nothing else.
You may not agree with me and my views? Fantastic! More power to you! Question others thoughts and challenge your own. That's how good debates work and that's how we grow as individuals. When you insult people as a means to get attention, don't be surprised when people decide not to listen to you. If you want people to respect your opinion, you need to be respectful yourself.
Now that the smoke is clearing, I'm going to be completely straight with you.
It's both a wonderful thing and terrible thing that you brought this topic up.
When it comes to displaying the other side of the argument, you certainly did a good job. As you can see, the comments here are mostly agreeing with the sentiments that I have. But you are provoking thought about the other side. Is this change really a bad thing? What if they know what they are doing? Am I overreacting? Is this a knee-jerk reaction? It's very likely. The comic book industry, Hollywood as a whole, the video game industry, many products that are coming out of those media outlets lately are less focused on telling a story and more highlighting the creator's political bias. That's why I and many other people see Applejack's change as a big red flag. We're worried they are following that trend. But you know what? I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for Hasbro to make a character that's both believable and diverse. The moment I find this new Applejack to be the case, I will delete this journal and state my love, no questions asked. It's good for you to highlight this possibility instead of focusing on the negatives of change.
Now, the terrible thing about you bringing this topic up is HOW you brought this up.
I'm worried that, by insulting me off the gate and trying to justify why you did that, you immediately discredited your argument right out of the gate. I'm going to let you in on a trade secret. Back in the day, before colleges worried about useless courses that does no one any good, they use to teach students the art of the debate. You demonstrated two different ones in both your responses: "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" and "Ad hominem". I didn't like this change, therefore I'm a racist. That makes it ok to call me an idiot. To be fair, I don't blame you for this mindset. Many peer groups today and even some college courses teach that the loudest groups wins. The ends justify the means. But here's the thing. The reason I went to your art was to see what kind of person you really are, as art is a wonderful expression on one's character. By having your character say that you respect other people's views when you, yourself, insult others that don't think the way you do makes you look very hypocritical. And let me tell you, hypocrisy kills your character like nothing else.
You may not agree with me and my views? Fantastic! More power to you! Question others thoughts and challenge your own. That's how good debates work and that's how we grow as individuals. When you insult people as a means to get attention, don't be surprised when people decide not to listen to you. If you want people to respect your opinion, you need to be respectful yourself.
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Thank you. I'm sorry if I made you upset and I understand the position you are coming from. To be honest, I'm also against blatant racism, too, but on both sides. I'm sick of people attacking white people as well as attacking black people. It's a war on both fronts, and I'm seeing both sides of the tale. I'd rather focus on the works and character of the individual. I'm sorry if, for any reason, I didn't specify this and gave you the wrong impression.
As for the question "Would I have found this out if I hadn't forced you to reply by making you angry?", the answer would be yes and no. If you had been patient, you would see that I'm not the person you'd think I am and certainly be a lot more open with you. It's a good lesson to learn for the next discussion you have. Even if the next person is an alt-right troll, it's worth it to be polite and understanding and let him display his bigoted views without making yourself look like you started the fight. He'll look bad and you'll come up on top and let your view be heard and respected.
Cheerio!
As for the question "Would I have found this out if I hadn't forced you to reply by making you angry?", the answer would be yes and no. If you had been patient, you would see that I'm not the person you'd think I am and certainly be a lot more open with you. It's a good lesson to learn for the next discussion you have. Even if the next person is an alt-right troll, it's worth it to be polite and understanding and let him display his bigoted views without making yourself look like you started the fight. He'll look bad and you'll come up on top and let your view be heard and respected.
Cheerio!
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