Comment on ES: Find Yourself 266 by EStories
Yeah, I can really see in "A Matter of Principals" how he has grown into an emotionally mature and entirely non-chaotic individual.
Other than "Discordant Harmony," where he was making a specific effort to not be himself, can you name a single episode where he didn't use or try to use trickery and manipulation on those around him, whether his intention was to help them, hurt them, get his way, or simply assuage his boredom?
He was horrendously out of character in A Matter of Principals, because the thing is, he has become an emotionally mature person who doesn't try to make ponies miserable. He only uses his chaos magic for good and entertainment, and the worst he ever does is occasionally be a little annoying, which is why A Matter of Principals was such a major error.
Also,
To Where And Back Again
The Break Up Breakdown
Discordant Harmony
Princess Twilight Sparkle
To name a few. And also, using tricks and masterminding isn't a bad thing, it's a talent. Whether you choose to use it for good or bad is your choice.
Also,
To Where And Back Again
The Break Up Breakdown
Discordant Harmony
Princess Twilight Sparkle
To name a few. And also, using tricks and masterminding isn't a bad thing, it's a talent. Whether you choose to use it for good or bad is your choice.
Getting the changeling guards to chase him so the rest of the rescue party could sneak through was definitely trickery. He spent much of "The Break Up Break Down" trying to manipulate Spike and Big Mac into playing O&O with him and then secretly arranged for Sugar Belle's cart to break so Big Mac could help her. "Discordant Harmony" is, to reiterate, the one exception where he's specifically trying to not be himself. His means of goading Twilight into chasing after her friends in the Everfree was certainly manipulative, and you can't stop me from also looking askance at watching Twilight suffer through the past trying to figure out what was going on rather than throwing her a bone since he knew exactly what was up. Some of that was for specifically good ends, but as we've both already agreed, that's not a requirement.
So let's consider what he's done recently to see if "A Matter of Principals" is in line with it:
- "The Best Gift Ever"" He causes a winterzilla attack that threatens to ruin the Hearth's Warming gathering. He claims this was to give Fluttershy a chance to be the hero; it is difficult to judge whether this was an actual motivation or a post facto justification based on how things worked out. However, it is likely he was (additionally or entirely) motivated by the slight of not being invited to said gathering, as evidenced by how he passive-aggressively brings his lack of invitation up to guilt Dash. (One will note this in particular as an example of him not clearly expressing himself and instead resorting to passive-aggressive revenge and/or guilt tactics.)
- "The Break Up Break Down": For an episode about bad communication, this one provides surprisingly little evidence either way about Discord's communication skills; he doesn't have that much to communicate. He doesn't seem all that sympathetic to Big Mac's situation for most of the episode, instead giving somewhat questionable advice more aimed at distracting Big Mac from his pain than dealing with the actual problem, but in the end he does help Big Mac and Sugar Belle reunite.
- "Celestial Advice": He engineers a Twilight Sparkle freak-out because it's funny.
"To Where and Back Again" - He objects strongly to Fluttershy's kidnapping, and takes it kind of personally that Chrysalis's throne prevents him from doing so alone. He spends a lot of time bickering with the rest of the ragtag band, although he only once lets it rise to the level of being actively counterproductive.
- "Dungeons & Discords": He tries to stop Fluttershy from leaving Ponyville, although more in a for-show way than in an I-don't-think-you'll-make-me-turn-the-train-route-back way. At the guys' night, it is not his fault that nopony gives his a proper description of how O&O works, but it is his fault that his response to the resulting frustration is to try to lash out in-game, then to lash out out-of-game, then to lash out by putting Spike and Big Mac into the game. After they get him to stop, he delivers a passive-aggressive request to be given a second chance in the form of a guilt-laden farewell, though he does ultimately give an actual apology for his behavior.
So I stand by my claim that he is immature and passive-aggressive.
And what is your problem with him getting the changeling guards to chase him? Anypony would have had to be a distraction to get past them. He literally saved Equestria by doing that. What is wrong with that?
Also, he used the winterzilla ruse to make Fluttershy a hero and make her have a great Hearth's Warming, and, if I recall, nopony was endangered or hurt. Discord is tricksy, but he would never try to hurt somepony. There's a big difference between creating chaos and misery for everyone, and simply using tricks to do something.
Discord is a trickster, but being a trickster doesn't mean he's cruel or nasty, which is why he was so out of character in Matter of Principals. Seriously, tell me, what is so bad about distracting changelings or planning a ruse to give someone a present? I'd say that was loyal and considerate.
Also, he used the winterzilla ruse to make Fluttershy a hero and make her have a great Hearth's Warming, and, if I recall, nopony was endangered or hurt. Discord is tricksy, but he would never try to hurt somepony. There's a big difference between creating chaos and misery for everyone, and simply using tricks to do something.
Discord is a trickster, but being a trickster doesn't mean he's cruel or nasty, which is why he was so out of character in Matter of Principals. Seriously, tell me, what is so bad about distracting changelings or planning a ruse to give someone a present? I'd say that was loyal and considerate.
Yes, I get it, you agree with me that not all trickery is bad trickery. You can stop reiterating it.
I'd say it's rather a stretch to say that nopony was endangered just because nopony ended up getting hurt. The Mane Six make rather a habit of being endangered but usually not getting hurt (such is the consequence of being characters in a TV show). Certainly a rampaging winterzilla has the capacity to hurt somepony, whether or not you assert a justification after the situation is resolved. Besides, nopony got hurt in "A Matter of Principals" either, just severely inconvenienced. The tricks he pulled there were probably less dangerous than the winterzilla. (Potentially they were also less dangerous than the game world he put Spike and Big Mac in in "Dungeons & Discords," though it's difficult to gauge how far he would have taken that if they had rolled poorly.)
Discord has always taken revenge when offended, and usually it doesn't end until he gets talked down one way or another (unless he's allowed to get his revenge without receiving any retaliation for that revenge). He did it in "A Matter of Principals," he did it in "Dungeons & Discords," he probably did it in "The Best Gift Ever," he did it in "Make New Friends But Keep Discord," he did it in "Three's a Crowd," he did it a lot before Fluttershy befriended him, and he'll continue to do it in the future.
I'd say it's rather a stretch to say that nopony was endangered just because nopony ended up getting hurt. The Mane Six make rather a habit of being endangered but usually not getting hurt (such is the consequence of being characters in a TV show). Certainly a rampaging winterzilla has the capacity to hurt somepony, whether or not you assert a justification after the situation is resolved. Besides, nopony got hurt in "A Matter of Principals" either, just severely inconvenienced. The tricks he pulled there were probably less dangerous than the winterzilla. (Potentially they were also less dangerous than the game world he put Spike and Big Mac in in "Dungeons & Discords," though it's difficult to gauge how far he would have taken that if they had rolled poorly.)
Discord has always taken revenge when offended, and usually it doesn't end until he gets talked down one way or another (unless he's allowed to get his revenge without receiving any retaliation for that revenge). He did it in "A Matter of Principals," he did it in "Dungeons & Discords," he probably did it in "The Best Gift Ever," he did it in "Make New Friends But Keep Discord," he did it in "Three's a Crowd," he did it a lot before Fluttershy befriended him, and he'll continue to do it in the future.
Make New Friends But Keep Discord was AGES ago, and right after his second reformation when he didn't understand friendship. Discord has had a LOT of character development since then, and has certainly not taken revenge in Best Gift Ever, he wanted to give Fluttershy a special present. Discord was once a person who tried to create chaos and make ponies miserable and terrified, but that is not who he is anymore. Just look at him in Discordant Harmony, how nice he is to everypony, and even saves that clerk pony from falling. The new writers don't know him as well as we do, and the consequence was badly out-of-character episodes. That's not what Discord does anymore. He doesn't cause chaos or misery, or take revenge out on ponies. The worst he ever does is sometimes annoy ponies. That's literall it, which is why Matter of Principals was such a big mistake.
Yeah, sure, he only wanted to give Fluttershy a special present, and in "Three's a Crowd" he only wanted to find out if Twilight was actually his friend, and he was only trying to help in "Celestial Advice." He's never been afraid to lie about his motivations (he's been doing it for over a millennium), and whether or not making Fluttershy a hero was actually among his original motivations he is perfectly capable of doing things for multiple reasons.
You keep talking like Discord can't be petty anymore because he's no longer pure evil, but the world is not so binary. He hasn't even stopped being evil, because he never was evil to begin with. He used to be a chaotic neutral demigod with a large ego and beef with Celestia, and now he's a chaotic neutral demigod with a large ego who has decided to put past conflicts with Celestia behind him because he's made some friends who like Celestia (and because she's no longer trying to get rid of him). He's still Discord and he will always be Discord, because people don't just change on a deep level. They change perspective and they change priorities in response to life experiences, but don't think they're a totally different person just because they're no longer pissed off at the government.
Um, yeah, Discord was evil. He used his magic to torture ponies and wanted to take Equestria for himself. He was an evil supervillain, and he is no longer evil anymore.
Sure, he was still tricksy and a pain after his reformation, eg. Three's A Crowd, but as I've said, that was AGES ago, and ever since his second reformation, he has never done anything to cause disaster and harm and try and make anyone miserable. Discord has come a long way, and he is still Discord, of course, but he isn't the Discord he was back then. Ponies change. You don't see Luna trying to destroy Celestia, or Starlight stripping cutie marks, or Sunset Shimmer turning into a demon anymore.
And there's nothing wrong with lying temporarily, intending to reveal it later. Like Pinkie Pie's surprise party in Party of One. If they had told her the truth, everything would have been ruined. And sure, he was annoying in Celestial Advice, but that's the worst Discord does these days: be a little annoying. He isn't cruel or evil anymore, he's good, and just occasionally annoying.
Sure, he was still tricksy and a pain after his reformation, eg. Three's A Crowd, but as I've said, that was AGES ago, and ever since his second reformation, he has never done anything to cause disaster and harm and try and make anyone miserable. Discord has come a long way, and he is still Discord, of course, but he isn't the Discord he was back then. Ponies change. You don't see Luna trying to destroy Celestia, or Starlight stripping cutie marks, or Sunset Shimmer turning into a demon anymore.
And there's nothing wrong with lying temporarily, intending to reveal it later. Like Pinkie Pie's surprise party in Party of One. If they had told her the truth, everything would have been ruined. And sure, he was annoying in Celestial Advice, but that's the worst Discord does these days: be a little annoying. He isn't cruel or evil anymore, he's good, and just occasionally annoying.
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