Comment on The KM FUHRER by leovictor
Actually, from the size of this KMS Fuhrer, its size alone would have to render it immune to both bomb and torpedo attacks, and the only thing to destroy it was another monster ship like it or possibly a nuclear armed bomb, if the bomber carrying it gets through the luftwaffe defences and heavy AA fire from the Fuhrer itself and any escorts it may have.
There's no such thing as being immune to bombs or torpedoes, a pass from a squad of heavy bombers dropping a spread of ordinance on something as un-maneuverable as this would utterly decimate it. Also, while this ship would undoubtedly have a lot of AA defense, the fact that it's such a large ship means that it would literally be a sitting duck from high-altitude attacks. And since torpedo detonations in deep water, especially as deep as this ships hull is, mean that the majority of concussive force would be spread into the ship, buckling its hull and causing an immense amount of damage within it.
Except in WW2 in the Pacific Theatre had demonstrated the capability of having thick armor against bombs and torpedoes against large battleships. Yamato and Musashi for example may have been sunk by air attack, but the amount of punishment absorbed was immense, with each ship absorbing as much as nearly fifteen torpedoes and many bombs each, so a massive ship may be a sitting duck as you said, but its size also helps in protecting itself as battleships are renowned for having very tough armor, even for todays standards.
Even so, apart from loss of the Arizona and Oklahoma in the attack on Pearl Harbor, the US had never lost a battleship in WW2.
Plus, the South Dakota class battleships anti-torpedo belts were moved inside of the ship, allowing it to comfortably withstand hits even from guns of the same size and calibre. If the Fuhrer had another armored belt moved to the interior, it would be completely safe from torpedo attack due to its size as an added bonus. And the ships hull would be so heavily reinforced it would be rare for the hull to buckle from a torpedo hit anyways.
Also, as the Tirpitz had scared the British Admiralty so much it was forced to tie down the heavy units in case she broke out, meaning if Tirpitz had such a high scare factor, then the Fuhrer would be capable of causing so much of a ruckus then any convoy would refuse to sail to Russia. And if the convoys refused to supply Russia then Germany woud've taken over over half of Russia. This was demonstrated when Convoy PQ17 was ordered by the Admiralty to scatter due to a false report of Tirpitz attempting to intercept, and that had caused the convoy to be left defenseless and each ship was steadily picked off by German aircraft and submarines, and all that time the Tirpitz didn't even have to leave the fjords let alone fire a shot.
All that means that such a massive superbattleship like the Fuhrer would be capable of not just doing damage physically but also mentally as well, and with an immensely powerful arsenal of weapons the Fuhrer would also be highly capable of starving Britain into surrender, with the assisting help of friendly U-Boats and aircraft for scouting and plotting course to the next set of targets.
Even so, apart from loss of the Arizona and Oklahoma in the attack on Pearl Harbor, the US had never lost a battleship in WW2.
Plus, the South Dakota class battleships anti-torpedo belts were moved inside of the ship, allowing it to comfortably withstand hits even from guns of the same size and calibre. If the Fuhrer had another armored belt moved to the interior, it would be completely safe from torpedo attack due to its size as an added bonus. And the ships hull would be so heavily reinforced it would be rare for the hull to buckle from a torpedo hit anyways.
Also, as the Tirpitz had scared the British Admiralty so much it was forced to tie down the heavy units in case she broke out, meaning if Tirpitz had such a high scare factor, then the Fuhrer would be capable of causing so much of a ruckus then any convoy would refuse to sail to Russia. And if the convoys refused to supply Russia then Germany woud've taken over over half of Russia. This was demonstrated when Convoy PQ17 was ordered by the Admiralty to scatter due to a false report of Tirpitz attempting to intercept, and that had caused the convoy to be left defenseless and each ship was steadily picked off by German aircraft and submarines, and all that time the Tirpitz didn't even have to leave the fjords let alone fire a shot.
All that means that such a massive superbattleship like the Fuhrer would be capable of not just doing damage physically but also mentally as well, and with an immensely powerful arsenal of weapons the Fuhrer would also be highly capable of starving Britain into surrender, with the assisting help of friendly U-Boats and aircraft for scouting and plotting course to the next set of targets.
Completely safe? What about it's rudder and propeller shafts? I could also see specially designed weapons being used against it, such as the Wallis rolling skip bomb or large-sized torpedoes. And if I remember correctly, the largest enemy warships sunk were done so through combined efforts of entire fleets; which is what would be brought to bear against this thing. It might have been intimidating and terrifying to opposing fleets, but once they realized that it was just a huge, slow-moving target, they'd have rallied together and sent it to join it's sisters.
I do however agree with you that this ship would have been a tough, effective weapon of war if it had been built. I also think that it would not have been tough or effective enough, and would have gone the way of many other massive warships.
I do however agree with you that this ship would have been a tough, effective weapon of war if it had been built. I also think that it would not have been tough or effective enough, and would have gone the way of many other massive warships.
Except the so-called huge, slow moving target won't be that easy to disable, let alone destroy.
The combined fleet effort may be enough to bring something like the Fuhrer into a position where it won't easily escape, but the losses for the fleet will be very high, possibly losing several important ships, including capital ships if they end up in the gunners crosshairs, and 16" armor belts withstanding a 30"+ projectile? Impossible to avoid. Although even if the huge shell falls short it would still cause immense damage to the enemy ship, possibly getting hit underwater and breaking in half from the force of the projectile hitting and detonating.
And if the Fuhrer did end up coming into contact with elements or nearly whole of the British Home Fleet then the losses would be in favour for the Germans as the Fuhrer would also be armed with additional 15" guns both for naval warfare and fire support.
Take one of the British or American capital ships for example, if it was hit by a shell from the 30" guns then it would have the same fate as the Hood, blown up into pieces or in two.
The thing with torpedoes is, their size is partially restricted to the size of the submarine and the aircraft itself, as even a torpedo the size of the Tallboy Earthquake Bomb, it would suffer from depth problems, such as being too heavy to remain at the required depth level or too large for even operational use, and the Germans would be aware of the vulnerability of the stern equipment, so it would be possible to add additional 'collapsable' honeycomb hull structures, as these take and absorb the brunt of the damage and leave the inner hull unharmed.
Even so for a ship the size of the Fuhrer, its speed would also have to be enhanced by several fractions by the insanely powerful engines the Fuhrer would possess, possibly accelerating to a top speed of somewhere around 35/40knots+, for a short time to preserve fuel.
The combined efforts of entire fleets also brings the dangers of having that fleets' primary target having a strong well defended escort, so the attacking fleet would have to be forced to retreat to avoid certain destruction from both the escorts and the Fuhrer itself. Think about this.
Another thing I forgot to mention, there is a very fine line between being capable of getting brought down and being too big to be destroyed. The Yamatos were under that line when designs were completed, so they were done and dealt with. The H44s on the other hand would just be on the opposite side.
The other thing about being so big is the size of the weapons you can carry, as you said the Fuhrer (H44 class) was designed around the Shwere Gustav and Dora superguns, and having eight of those guns is by far capable of causing very serious physical and psyhcological damage to the enemy, and even more if it had sister ships working cooperatively together.
Even so, if the Fuhrer was on routine merchant raiding missions like the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and not penned up in fjords like the Tirpitz for example, it would certainly be capable of forcing the British to be extremely wary of the Fuhrer or its sisters when the British ships went on naval patrols.
And even it had sister ships they would be also capable of very intense damage to the Allies' morale in ship losses, multiple defeats and many more by each H44 class ship. This would also add the H44 class to be the most powerful, largest, and the most deadliest weapons ever if they were built.
The combined fleet effort may be enough to bring something like the Fuhrer into a position where it won't easily escape, but the losses for the fleet will be very high, possibly losing several important ships, including capital ships if they end up in the gunners crosshairs, and 16" armor belts withstanding a 30"+ projectile? Impossible to avoid. Although even if the huge shell falls short it would still cause immense damage to the enemy ship, possibly getting hit underwater and breaking in half from the force of the projectile hitting and detonating.
And if the Fuhrer did end up coming into contact with elements or nearly whole of the British Home Fleet then the losses would be in favour for the Germans as the Fuhrer would also be armed with additional 15" guns both for naval warfare and fire support.
Take one of the British or American capital ships for example, if it was hit by a shell from the 30" guns then it would have the same fate as the Hood, blown up into pieces or in two.
The thing with torpedoes is, their size is partially restricted to the size of the submarine and the aircraft itself, as even a torpedo the size of the Tallboy Earthquake Bomb, it would suffer from depth problems, such as being too heavy to remain at the required depth level or too large for even operational use, and the Germans would be aware of the vulnerability of the stern equipment, so it would be possible to add additional 'collapsable' honeycomb hull structures, as these take and absorb the brunt of the damage and leave the inner hull unharmed.
Even so for a ship the size of the Fuhrer, its speed would also have to be enhanced by several fractions by the insanely powerful engines the Fuhrer would possess, possibly accelerating to a top speed of somewhere around 35/40knots+, for a short time to preserve fuel.
The combined efforts of entire fleets also brings the dangers of having that fleets' primary target having a strong well defended escort, so the attacking fleet would have to be forced to retreat to avoid certain destruction from both the escorts and the Fuhrer itself. Think about this.
Another thing I forgot to mention, there is a very fine line between being capable of getting brought down and being too big to be destroyed. The Yamatos were under that line when designs were completed, so they were done and dealt with. The H44s on the other hand would just be on the opposite side.
The other thing about being so big is the size of the weapons you can carry, as you said the Fuhrer (H44 class) was designed around the Shwere Gustav and Dora superguns, and having eight of those guns is by far capable of causing very serious physical and psyhcological damage to the enemy, and even more if it had sister ships working cooperatively together.
Even so, if the Fuhrer was on routine merchant raiding missions like the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and not penned up in fjords like the Tirpitz for example, it would certainly be capable of forcing the British to be extremely wary of the Fuhrer or its sisters when the British ships went on naval patrols.
And even it had sister ships they would be also capable of very intense damage to the Allies' morale in ship losses, multiple defeats and many more by each H44 class ship. This would also add the H44 class to be the most powerful, largest, and the most deadliest weapons ever if they were built.